WMATA orders Orion VII NG's?

[Annex4421]

Well that sucks I really looked foward to riding them, well theres always Faifax connector speaking of which they're supposed to get some more D40LFRS

[Tritransit Area]

WMATA does have this thing with getting just about every type of Orion they see. So I wouldn't be surprised if they get some NGs.

I thought WMATA and Orion called it quits after the O7 CNG debacle.

Probably not they always get what ever orion puts out why do you think they got the VII's in the first place plus times have changed since then

WMATA's Orion VIIs are horrendous.  What were the major issues what WMATA had with them?   Wasn't that order severely delayed repeatedly?

To jump to another transit service that was a long time Orion customer, Ride On, those Orion VIIs (especially the latest order, oh my!) are the reasons why I don't see diesel/hybrid versions running on the 16 as I always dreamed .

[Annex4421]

They VII's looked fine the last time I saw them they dominate Virginia

[daimlerbuses]

WMATA does have this thing with getting just about every type of Orion they see. So I wouldn't be surprised if they get some NGs.

I thought WMATA and Orion called it quits after the O7 CNG debacle.

Probably not they always get what ever orion puts out why do you think they got the VII's in the first place plus times have changed since then

WMATA's Orion VIIs are horrendous.  What were the major issues what WMATA had with them?   Wasn't that order severely delayed repeatedly?

To jump to another transit service that was a long time Orion customer, Ride On, those Orion VIIs (especially the latest order, oh my!) are the reasons why I don't see diesel/hybrid versions running on the 16 as I always dreamed .

It really is too bad, to simply put it nicely the O7 starting up was a disaster. They bidded on too many contracts with the model and then faced a huge backlog when they hit production, and then came the problems, but by then so many were in the late stages of production or in service, that the reputation took a hard hit. After 2005 or so, after the Daimler bigwigs were unimpressed by the whole fiasco (probably right after the WMATA disaster) Orion started dramatically improving the build quality of their buses and invested more money into quality control. You can't argue that the build quality hasn't improved, with all the new customers that have jumped onto the bandwagon lately.

And just wait, in a few years Ride On will probably be looking at another manufacturer - just by looking at how other Gilligs have fared in heavy duty situations, which isn't too great since they aren't really heavy duty buses. I can use many agencies as an example - such as Des Moines, Iowa and Ames, Iowa where they purchased Gilligs from 1998-2004 and went to Orion in 2005 after not being happy with extensive rust and high rattling. And it was surprising, because Des Moines and Ames take very good care of their buses.

[daimlerbuses]

Orion needs to step their game up hopefully the NG's bring back good relationships

Daimler Buses North America and New York MTA destroyed the Orion name and its reputation.

Ever considered how beneficial MTA has been to Orion over the years?

[Annex4421]

I Don't hate Orion's the still have my vote. I wish Orion and WMATA make up.

[Tristan]

Everyone likes making up but this isn't high school romance -- this (the 2500s) was a multimillion dollar bus order riddled with issues beyond those of a normal fleet launch, some of which have not been settled to this day.*

Unless WMATA gets in some kind of pinch where they have no choice but to go Orion, I really don't see a new order going their way unless they come up with some sort of detailed plan on how to prevent what happened the last time around.  Not at long as New Flyer is in business anyway, although their manufacturing defect with the overweight buses is embarrassing (did any of these overweight units make it onto WMATA property?  It's much less embarrassing, actually it looks good, if New Flyer caught the problem before they arrived).

Why buy a Pacer when you can get an Accord?  Why go with a company they know has given them major issues when they can buy from a company with a proven track record of high-quality, on-time orders?


*Yes all new bus orders come with their problems, but not all new buses are assembled with velcro and plastic.

[rideonrulez]

And just wait, in a few years Ride On will probably be looking at another manufacturer - just by looking at how other Gilligs have fared in heavy duty situations, which isn't too great since they aren't really heavy duty buses. I can use many agencies as an example - such as Des Moines, Iowa and Ames, Iowa where they purchased Gilligs from 1998-2004 and went to Orion in 2005 after not being happy with extensive rust and high rattling. And it was surprising, because Des Moines and Ames take very good care of their buses.

Well as of now Ride On can't go to Orion as they have a 5 year contract with Gillig UNLESS they get CNG buses which they were suppose to order 8 additional units a few years back. But after the last batch of Orion VII's that came in were plagued with problems and were 6 months late, they backed out. If Ride On decides to move on to another manufacturer, it will probably be New Flyer because the Operations Manager is from SEPTA which is land of the New Flyer. But then again it is a bidding process so who knows....

[Annex4421]

And just wait, in a few years Ride On will probably be looking at another manufacturer - just by looking at how other Gilligs have fared in heavy duty situations, which isn't too great since they aren't really heavy duty buses. I can use many agencies as an example - such as Des Moines, Iowa and Ames, Iowa where they purchased Gilligs from 1998-2004 and went to Orion in 2005 after not being happy with extensive rust and high rattling. And it was surprising, because Des Moines and Ames take very good care of their buses.

Well as of now Ride On can't go to Orion as they have a 5 year contract with Gillig UNLESS they get CNG buses which they were suppose to order 8 additional units a few years back. But after the last batch of Orion VII's that came in were plagued with problems and were 6 months late, they backed out. If Ride On decides to move on to another manufacturer, it will probably be New Flyer because the Operations Manager is from SEPTA which is land of the New Flyer. But then again it is a bidding process so who knows....

Maybe you guys could get some New Flyer LFA's. But I hope Ride-On dosn't gt NABI's.

[Annex4421]

Everyone likes making up but this isn't high school romance -- this (the 2500s) was a multimillion dollar bus order riddled with issues beyond those of a normal fleet launch, some of which have not been settled to this day.*

Unless WMATA gets in some kind of pinch where they have no choice but to go Orion, I really don't see a new order going their way unless they come up with some sort of detailed plan on how to prevent what happened the last time around.  Not at long as New Flyer is in business anyway, although their manufacturing defect with the overweight buses is embarrassing (did any of these overweight units make it onto WMATA property?  It's much less embarrassing, actually it looks good, if New Flyer caught the problem before they arrived).

Why buy a Pacer when you can get an Accord?  Why go with a company they know has given them major issues when they can buy from a company with a proven track record of high-quality, on-time orders?


*Yes all new bus orders come with their problems, but not all new buses are assembled with velcro and plastic.

Well You do make a great point besides I do like the New Flyers. But since WMATA is glued to hybrids why not Orion hybrids? I dont think WMATA would have an issue since hybids are some what better than CNG's which I don't agree with.

[LandoverDivision]

Everyone likes making up but this isn't high school romance -- this (the 2500s) was a multimillion dollar bus order riddled with issues beyond those of a normal fleet launch, some of which have not been settled to this day.*

Unless WMATA gets in some kind of pinch where they have no choice but to go Orion, I really don't see a new order going their way unless they come up with some sort of detailed plan on how to prevent what happened the last time around.  Not at long as New Flyer is in business anyway, although their manufacturing defect with the overweight buses is embarrassing (did any of these overweight units make it onto WMATA property?  It's much less embarrassing, actually it looks good, if New Flyer caught the problem before they arrived).

Why buy a Pacer when you can get an Accord?  Why go with a company they know has given them major issues when they can buy from a company with a proven track record of high-quality, on-time orders?


*Yes all new bus orders come with their problems, but not all new buses are assembled with velcro and plastic.

Well You do make a great point besides I do like the New Flyers. But since WMATA is glued to hybrids why not Orion hybrids? I dont think WMATA would have an issue since hybids are some what better than CNG's which I don't agree with.

Hybrids are better because of the gas it can save plus it's cleaner and cheaper. When it comes to sound CNGs are better.

[Scrabbleship]

And just wait, in a few years Ride On will probably be looking at another manufacturer - just by looking at how other Gilligs have fared in heavy duty situations, which isn't too great since they aren't really heavy duty buses. I can use many agencies as an example - such as Des Moines, Iowa and Ames, Iowa where they purchased Gilligs from 1998-2004 and went to Orion in 2005 after not being happy with extensive rust and high rattling. And it was surprising, because Des Moines and Ames take very good care of their buses.

Well as of now Ride On can't go to Orion as they have a 5 year contract with Gillig UNLESS they get CNG buses which they were suppose to order 8 additional units a few years back. But after the last batch of Orion VII's that came in were plagued with problems and were 6 months late, they backed out. If Ride On decides to move on to another manufacturer, it will probably be New Flyer because the Operations Manager is from SEPTA which is land of the New Flyer. But then again it is a bidding process so who knows....

Wouldn't that contract be up soon or did the original hybrids that came via the NYS Consortium not count towards that total? I believe that in the case of RGRTA, their part of consortium hybrids counted towards their contract though in their case it was mid-contract.

As for SEPTA influence = New Flyer, CDTA's now former head came from SEPTA (and even painted some of the buses in a SEPTA-esque scheme) and they also entered a 5-year deal with Gillig. In fact, he ended up putting down New Flyer at a public presentation where the buses for the original part of their Gillig order were compared, largely due to concerns with the doors of the LFR's!

[Tritransit Area]

Well You do make a great point besides I do like the New Flyers. But since WMATA is glued to hybrids why not Orion hybrids? I dont think WMATA would have an issue since hybids are some what better than CNG's which I don't agree with.

Hybrids are better because of the gas it can save plus it's cleaner and cheaper. When it comes to sound CNGs are better.

Huh?  Natural Gas is cheaper than diesel fuel, especially nowadays.  Natural Gas is domestically produced.  CNG buses are cheaper than hybrid buses.  CNG is safer than diesel. How is diesel cleaner than natural gas?

[Tritransit Area]

Well as of now Ride On can't go to Orion as they have a 5 year contract with Gillig UNLESS they get CNG buses which they were suppose to order 8 additional units a few years back. But after the last batch of Orion VII's that came in were plagued with problems and were 6 months late, they backed out. If Ride On decides to move on to another manufacturer, it will probably be New Flyer because the Operations Manager is from SEPTA which is land of the New Flyer. But then again it is a bidding process so who knows....

A FIVE YEAR GILLIG CONTRACT?!  Oh Ride On, you're breaking my heart!  However, in terms of the C40LFs, how are they treating Ride On?  I never hear anything about them, and I generally avoid them since, well, I come from the land of the New Flyer.

[Tritransit Area]

Wouldn't that contract be up soon or did the original hybrids that came via the NYS Consortium not count towards that total? I believe that in the case of RGRTA, their part of consortium hybrids counted towards their contract though in their case it was mid-contract.

The NYS Consortium only involved the original five Gillig hybrids, if I'm not mistaken.  The frameless window buses, as well as the ones coming in right now in the Big R scheme, are a different order.  Remember that this order includes diesel buses as well.