WMATA only ran DC and intra-jurisdiction routes

[btconet]

and any route that ran in a single jurisdiction was operated by that jurisdiction.

In other words, the Q2 would be a Ride-On bus, the F14 would be a PG bus, etc.
How vastly different would the system be, and would WMATA pare enough bus routes to be a bit more "user-friendly?"  Would a new agency for routes between Alexandria and Arlington be suitable?

Thoughts...

[WayneNYC]

Such an arrangement doesn't sound too far-fetched, but of course I'd have to defer to the professionals in the field.  I wouldn't be too suprised if this happened one day.  I guess a somewhat reversed version of this happens today in NYC.  NYCTA buses (with a few exceptions) and trains do not go outside of NYC, but agencies from surrounding areas operate into NYC where they generally feed outlying subway terminals.  Another difference is that the agencies coming into NYC generally operate "closed door" within NYC limits as not to compete with NYCTA buses.  Again, there a few exceptions.   

My first thought is that PG riders would be in a worse position than they are now unless PG, The Bus does a total transformation.  The first, is providing service beyond Monday-Friday business hours.

Would passengers crossing into other jurisdictions on WMATA buses have to pay a surcharge?

I guess there would also be a need for numerous transit centers where neighboring systems to make connections or maybe they'd simply use existing Metrorail stations close to borders?

[WMAveteran]

I think that scenario would destroy the "regional" nature of our transit system.  That's the way the system ran before METRO and I rode the buses then and it is much better now especially with the advent of the SMARTRIP cards. 

Before METRO there were four (4) separate bus systems where interline transfers were practically nonexistent and travelling from one system to another was expensive. I lived in a place that was served by WMA Transit and I went to school at Archbishop Carrol High School in NE DC.  It took me 3-4 buses on two separate bus systems to get to and from school, plus, if you crossed state lines, you had to pay a supplemental fare. God help you if you needed to travel to Virginia: from my house that required three separate bus companies and 3-4 buses (WMA to DC Transit to either WV&M or AB&W) plus three separate fares!  Occasionally depending on your destination you could take WMA to 11th and Pennsylvania or Lafayette Square and walk to WV&M or AB&W but you still had to pay two separate fares.

We need to increase regional cooperation and not isolate ourselves by geographic boundaries that have little meaning to persons who use transit.

[WES]

Well in the mid 90s that nearly came to reality when metrobus was in such bad shape that it nearly dispanded.  Richard White began the push to put more into the bus system and to make it somewhat compatable to metrorail.

But if a situation would occur, I would be on the first moving truck to Montgomery County and if needbe live in a box in the woods in order to ride a transit system that runs past 8pm and on weekends. 

Another question would be if that happened and metrobus was disbanded, how would the equipment be split up.  Would whatever is in each garage would stay there and be attained whatever county agency happpens to run it.

[Tritransit Area]

You know, I was thinking about this very topic the last time I was down there.  Specifically, I was wondering why Ride-On didn't just take over the Z routes and weekday service on the L8, Z2, and T2.

Then I realized that I wouldn't think that Ride-On would have the capability or resources to handle such a monster, and I think that this would apply to other systems as well.

If I'm not mistaken, the remaining intra-jurisdiction WMATA routes are primarily high ridership lines, which require at least full sized buses operating at somewhat frequent headways. 

Outside of Fairfax Connector and now Ride-On and I guess PG THE BUS (are the HDXs 40 ft long?), the municipalities don't really have full sized buses.  Plus, PG only has that one central depot, doesn't it?  It may be a headache to try to take on those heavy bus routes as a part of the system.

However, time will tell...I'm curious about what the professionals would have to say about this.

[btconet]

Interesting responses, all.  I certainly am not one to like to see transit routes stop at borders as I see in many places.  I just find it interesting that history has sort of crafted the system in place today, which, when observed without that historical insight, poses a number of questions as to "Why does the county agency run this route, but WMATA runs this route?"

Another thing I've noticed is that a number of WMATA cross-county routes such as the F and C seem to meander a good deal, leaving them with some very long travel times. It would seem that the smaller agencies would be ideally suited to serving many of these deviations that would feed the WMATA routes, that would be designed to get across the region as swiftly as possible.

The gained efficiency at WMATA by having more streamlined routes could then go into adding new multi-jurisdictional routes, while also increasing frequency and span of service on existing routes.

Yes, PG, would definitely need a significant makeover, including a new depot (or sharing a WMATA one), as PG service is woefully inadequate as it is.  I wouldn't suggest any changes in the fare structure at all - that is one thing that is very convenient for riders as it is.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Yes, PG, would definitely need a significant makeover, including a new depot (or sharing a WMATA one), as PG service is woefully inadequate as it is.  I wouldn't suggest any changes in the fare structure at all - that is one thing that is very convenient for riders as it is.

They need more than just a new depot of course. As for sharing one with WMATA, we'll see how West Ox goes as far as sharing is concerned. PG needs to expand their services into places that desperately need it, including Laurel, Upper Marlboro, and Bowie. Laurel gets alot of ridership during peak and even midday now but at other times, you have to take Howie's Truck to get up to there.

[OrionFlyer]

PG's bus service is very depressing indeed. Landover should consider help other divisions. In my opinion the only Landover operated route that runs good is the F4, F6 line. All the other routes are 30 minutes +. Is this because Landover doesn't have enough buses to handle the routes? The three routes that makes me so angry is the 89/M, R12, and T18. The 89 needs a better frequency. Every 30 minutes would be perfect. The R12 speaks for itself. I don't need explain. And the T18. From my experience this route gets a standing load  every time. This needs a better frequency and Bladensburg should help too. And speaking of helping I think Landover's problem is they don't get help from other divisions. Instead of the F4,6 being all Landover it should be either Bladensburg or Montgomery too. The F1, F2 shouldn't even be Landover's. F14 should be Annex too and should be increased from every 45 to 30 minutes. K11, 12, 13 and H11, 12, 13 shouldn't be Landover. They should be Annex too  since it's much, much, closer.

[OrionFlyer]

If Landover would get help from other divisions all day, then routes that are only in the area of Landover, like the 89, R12, T16,V12, V14,15, C20's can run a lot better then they currently do.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

If Landover would get help from other divisions all day, then routes that are only in the area of Landover, like the 89, R12, T16,V12, V14,15, C20's can run a lot better then they currently do.

The issue is funding and subsidies, not Landover's capacity.

[OrionFlyer]

So Landover does  have enough buses for an increase of service?

[WayneNYC]

So Landover does  have enough buses for an increase of service?

Landover has enough buses to cover all scheduled service from that division.  Should the service increase (more funding), then they'd adjust the number of buses assigned there to make pullout.

[WMAveteran]

Interesting responses, all.  I certainly am not one to like to see transit routes stop at borders as I see in many places.  I just find it interesting that history has sort of crafted the system in place today, which, when observed without that historical insight, poses a number of questions as to "Why does the county agency run this route, but WMATA runs this route?"

Another thing I've noticed is that a number of WMATA cross-county routes such as the F and C seem to meander a good deal, leaving them with some very long travel times. It would seem that the smaller agencies would be ideally suited to serving many of these deviations that would feed the WMATA routes, that would be designed to get across the region as swiftly as possible.

The gained efficiency at WMATA by having more streamlined routes could then go into adding new multi-jurisdictional routes, while also increasing frequency and span of service on existing routes.

Yes, PG, would definitely need a significant makeover, including a new depot (or sharing a WMATA one), as PG service is woefully inadequate as it is.  I wouldn't suggest any changes in the fare structure at all - that is one thing that is very convenient for riders as it is.

Precisely.  Many of these routes were inherited from DC Transit and WMA over 30 years ago and have changed little since then.  We cannot forget the history but we don't have to repeat it.  The slow travel times on all of the bus routes, particularly the long cross-counties connectors (F & C), could be significantly alleviated with no additional expenditures by eliminating half of all the bus stops.  There are just way too many bus stops, so many that in some areas you can walk faster than the bus travels.  We do not need a bus stop at every block.

[LandoverDivision]

I say get service where good service isn't currently at right now as WES said like Bowie, Laurel, Upper Marlboro, Lower Marlboro, Clinton, and Eagle Harbor. The DC Circulator Garage is in Landover isn't it? Maybe The Bus should set up another depot there.

[WES]

I think before THE BUS replaces (yes I say replace) their current garage with a new central one, they should consider putting one in southern PG first, MAYBE if the Fairfax Connector/WMATA garage works at West Ox, then PG should do one with WMATA as WMATA NEEDS to replace the Southern Avenue Annex garage.

As for the replacement garage for central bus service, there doesn't seem to be that much room in that area to put another bus facility, unless one of the other tenants move out.