Express Bus Service To Complement Metrorail

[WES]

There have been little talk about it, but since metrorail doesn't have the capacity to provide express rail service, providing express bus service would be a benefit to further reduce congestion.  Look at New York they are the busies subway system in the U.S. but yet they also have express bus service in addition to their subway service (correct me if I am wrong in the reasoning for this service).

Can you even picture an MCI in a metrobus paint scheme.

[WayneNYC]

The DC area may benefit from express buses, especially since there's so many areas not served by Metrorail.  One thing to remember about New York City's express buses is that they're big money losers.  Much more than local bus and subway service.  In the days before the takeover, NYCTA express buses was operated with funds from local buses and subway.  The old PBL express service was heavily subsidized by funding from the NYCDOT.

When you look at the express service in NYC, most of those routes serve areas that would otherwise be a 2-seat ride to/from Manhattan. 

In the DC area I think such an operation would definitely need to have the use of exclusive bus lanes on many roads and highways.

Wes, do you think OTR coaches would be necessary.  I still think they're overkill for most NYCTA and some MTAB express routes.

[79MetroExtraMD]

There have been little talk about it, but since metrorail doesn't have the capacity to provide express rail service, providing express bus service would be a benefit to further reduce congestion.  Look at New York they are the busies subway system in the U.S. but yet they also have express bus service in addition to their subway service (correct me if I am wrong in the reasoning for this service).

Can you even picture an MCI in a metrobus paint scheme.

I remember talking to a couple of operators about running express bus service with OTR coaches. They talked about the current PRTC system and the 29 Corridor. I would like to see Metro get OTR coaches for the B30 and the 5A since I've seen alot of patrons with luggage as well as alot of commuters on the 5A alongside travelers. As for express bus service, that might become a reality one day to connect those places not served by Metrorail. Then there is the plan to add more limited-stop routes along various corridors over the next 6 years. That might be close enough.

[Perry]

As long as WMATA doesn't operate PRTC service it will be fine.  That was the worst move ever especially when there was a new pick and the operators from PRTC would shift to another division. 

But more express service in general would be great.  Metrorail should never have been built as the end all be all and completely do away with complementary bus service. 

[WMATAGMOAGH]

They keep talking about creating more bus lines that would duplicate existing Metro service to alleviate the strain on Metro and to provide more options in service disruptions, but nothing seems to ever come of it.  For example, having half the L2s in the afternoon start at Van Ness (a relatively new service pattern) does nothing to encourage people not to use Metrorail, and just shows that most of the ridership takes the Red Line to Van Ness and then changes for the bus there.  However, the biggest issue in my mind is that because most Metrorail lines don't follow the street grid very closely, creating duplicate bus services can be difficult.

Here are a few general ideas from the top of my head:

Identify some routes that currently terminate at Pentagon and try running them over the 14th Street Bridge into Downtown Washington and see if people opt for the one seat ride over Metrorail. 

Create a limited bus on Connecticut Avenue to encourage people to use the L buses all the way into downtown instead of changing for the Metro at Van Ness.  I'd call them L3 and L5.  Both would make all stops from Chevy Chase Circle to Van Ness-UDC, but then would run non-stop or only stop at Cleveland Park or Woodley Park until reaching the Dupont Circle area, my guess is the first stop would be at Connecticut and R, when they could proceed to McPherson Square and Potomac Park making all local stops. 

I agree OTR road coaches would be overkill, and it limits flexibility in other ways.  Standard coaches should be fine.

[Scrabbleship]

OTR coaches should have been done for the B30 from the get-go and for the 5A when WMATA realized that travelers who wanted a cheap (vs. Washington Flyer or the shuttle services) trip to Dulles were taking it alongside the reverse commuters. The increased capacity of an OTR coach vs. the modified suburban seat O5's/suburban seat O7's would alone make it a win-win for WMATA as well as the increased luggage capacity. The one time I rode the B30 to BWI, the amount of luggage in the aisles reached near-hazard level.

I'm trying to think of any corridors that go straight into DC for express service, two that go to mind would be an express route going straight down Connecticut from Aspen Hill and a reverse-commute from DC to White Oak for the FDA, but the real potential should be inter-suburb commutes. VDOT dragging its heels about buses on shoulders aside, SmartMover never should have died and should be given another chance given the amount of ridership between MoCo and Fairfax.

As for any limited up Connecticut in DC, it makes sense given how far upper Connecticut seems to be kind of transit starved, however how it just ends at Chevy Chase Circle has always kind of irked me since it just...ends. Why not extend it the mile to Friendship Heights and have it end in an area that has, well, things?

[79MetroExtraMD]

OTR coaches should have been done for the B30 from the get-go and for the 5A when WMATA realized that travelers who wanted a cheap (vs. Washington Flyer or the shuttle services) trip to Dulles were taking it alongside the reverse commuters. The increased capacity of an OTR coach vs. the modified suburban seat O5's/suburban seat O7's would alone make it a win-win for WMATA as well as the increased luggage capacity. The one time I rode the B30 to BWI, the amount of luggage in the aisles reached near-hazard level.

I'm trying to think of any corridors that go straight into DC for express service, two that go to mind would be an express route going straight down Connecticut from Aspen Hill and a reverse-commute from DC to White Oak for the FDA, but the real potential should be inter-suburb commutes. VDOT dragging its heels about buses on shoulders aside, SmartMover never should have died and should be given another chance given the amount of ridership between MoCo and Fairfax.

As for any limited up Connecticut in DC, it makes sense given how far upper Connecticut seems to be kind of transit starved, however how it just ends at Chevy Chase Circle has always kind of irked me since it just...ends. Why not extend it the mile to Friendship Heights and have it end in an area that has, well, things?

As for SmartMover, I don't know if there is a demand for it to return. The routing was a bit unusual coming from Lakeforest to Bethesda or toward Tysons. I wish I had ridden it before WMATA cut the service. Ridership on both the 5A and B30 have jumped alot since their inception a few years ago. I remember first taking the B30 back in 2003 and it wasn't that bad, but recently, I've seen alot of travelers and luggage and those buses can't fit everything. A few OTR coaches would be a great idea to be dedicated to just those two lines. Only IF WMATA wants to go in that direction. A few operators I've talked to about it want the same.

An express bus down Connecticut Avenue wasn't really on the priority bus corridor plans. I looked over the document and there is no mention of Connecticut Avenue. I guess the main reason of having the Red Line running under Connecticut Avenue. Adding more service to the L lines would probably make do. I do agree with extending the L2 and L4 lines to Friendship Heights. That would possibly cut down on deadhead times and might create some interlining between the 30s and the E line.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

The Chevy Chase Circle terminal can be considered historical.  The service always went there, so that is where it ends.  I agree, it should go to Friendship Heights.  I doubt deadhead times would be significantly different if the route came out of Western, and it might add an extra minute or two on the runs.  Now that it is a Montgomery route, I doubt it matters much.  I imagine they would need to hold a hearing to eliminate the stop at Chevy Chase Circle though, since the best route would be to have the bus use McKinley Street to get from Connecticut to Western.

My L3 and L5 could start on Connecticut at Chevy Chase Lake, East-West Highway, or Bradley, in addition to CC Circle.  Doesn't really matter where, but the circle is the best option right now from a logistical standpoint I think.  I don't think just adding more L2s or L4s will make the difference for people changing to the Red Line.  The issue is the trip time.

Some of the L buses from Maryland used to terminate at Van Ness years ago.  I think the L6 and L7 were the ones that went to Van Ness, and the L8 went to Friendship Heights, but I could be wrong.  There was also an L5 from Chevy Chase Circle to Potomac Park which had a surcharge to ride it, but I never figured out the difference between the L5 and the current L1, and I'm not digging out my old timetable to figure it out.

Most of the 5As ridership is peak flow commuters, apparently.  That is why DC stopped funding it in such a way it didn't need an express fare.  I don't think OTR coaches would be that great on the B30 or 5A with needing to load and unload the baggage carriers.  It might work better on the B30 than the 5A, but what might make even more sense is more service with standard buses. 

There are many Fairfax to Montgomery commuters and vice versa, but anyone wanting to use SmartMover still has to travel to a stop to pick up the bus.  Unless you live very close to Lakeforest or Bethesa Station, or along Bradley Boulevard or River Road, you had to travel some distance to get to the bus, and I think that was a disincentive to take the bus. 

[WES]

Wayne,

It depends on where it would come from.  I don't think they should be all OTRs, most likely starting off in most areas with basic surburban transit buses and moving from there.

As for the B30 and the 5A using OTRs, I don't think that would be a good idea.  For one the surburban buses bought seem to have enough luggage space for any baggage needed.  The main point is to provide more service and also there seem to be no complaints about the luggage availability on the B30s and 5As that I have ridden in the past.

[WayneNYC]

Wes,

I agree.  I know many people prefer the OTR coaches as they're more comfortable than a transit bus.  I've always said that WMATA needs more artics just for the regular busy routes.  I'm also thinking that a route such as the B30 could do well with artics.  I've seen and ridden plenty of packed buses on the B30. 

Some of the longer rides from DC definitely could use OTR coaches.  However, I think many are fine with transit buses with suburban seating.

[Perry]

The schedules would have to be re-done for the B30 and the 5A to accommodate the extra time needed for the operator to go out and everyone to fend for themselves to get their luggage I would think. That may lead to union issues.

Most of the 'express' rides that WMATA has aren't that long, so I don't know if OTR coaches are that great of an investment.  Plus as has been said before you lose your ability to use them on say the Q2 if a bus broke down.  At least with the B30 buses you can get away with using them on some of the lighter routes.

[Tristan]

The low floor suburbans have more luggage capacity with their overhead racks; maybe these would be put to good use on the B30 and 5A; a luggage rack above the curb side wheel well would not hurt either, with a latching gate to keep things from flying off as the bus travels.

[79MetroExtraMD]

The low floor suburbans have more luggage capacity with their overhead racks; maybe these would be put to good use on the B30 and 5A; a luggage rack above the curb side wheel well would not hurt either, with a latching gate to keep things from flying off as the bus travels.

I think some of the 6200 suburbans would serve better on the B30 than with the Montgomery routes. At least 5 or 6. They have overhead luggage racks (which I haven't seen used) and those buses look as if they were intended for airport service. *rolls a set of dice**comes up LAND OVER**

[WayneNYC]

I hope the OTR coach invasion doesn't ever happen at WMATA.  I just don't see where they're really needed.  In my earlier post I stated that they probably would be good in some places, but now that I think more about it, I really don't see where WMATA would currently need OTR coaches.

[Tristan]

PRTC and MTA don't need them either...an OTR coach just isn't meant for transit.

Nowadays, dare I say a Gillig Phantom with high seats (using PRTC as the example) is just as comfortable as an MCI, at lower cost, better fuel economy, and with greater flexibility.  What do you need a bus with luggage bays for to shuttle people to and from work?  Just get a transit bus with sealed windows (to reduce road noise) and good seats and you're in business.