Shortening Metrorail Names

[Tritransit Area]

http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=5081

It's nice of them to address the "super-names", although I think some of the shortened names will lose important descriptors.  One I can think of is "Chinatown" from Gallery Place, another is "Zoo" from Woodley Park Zoo (I guess I didn't realize the area was just known as "Woodley Park"), and most importantly removing the "New York Ave" and replacing it with..."NoMa"....

NoMa really didn't make sense to me, so I discovered that it's the new name of the area north of Union Station along the Red Line ROW.  I guess that makes sense, but I would think New York Ave would be a better descriptor.  I guess as time goes on and "NoMa" becomes better developed, people will understand why it's called this.  Frankly, I think the developers are likely paying WMATA to change the name of the station to reflect this new community.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

NoMa is a ridiculous idea.  The rider surveys indicated people weren't familiar with the name.  Washington isn't New York, which can keep Tribeca and SoHo and NoHo and all those other names. 

The primary/secondary names are a good idea. 

I like Navy Yard-Ballpark.  I wouldn't have minded seeing Stadium-Armory become RFK Stadium-Armory.

I hope Smithsonian-National Mall never comes to light.

I'm not a huge fan of King Street-Old Town.

The hospital thing seems a bit silly to me but I suppose they could do worse.

[WayneNYC]

I don't like the shortened names either.  It's one thing to shorten names, but IMO, they should make sense.  IMO, for them to make sense, it should be understandable to a first-time visitor as well as metrorail regulars.  Something like "NoMa" does nothing for someone who is not familiar with Washington, DC and/or metrorail. 

I don't think WMATA's current station names were totally horrible.  I think it was a good idea (of attempting to be descriptive) that went too far. 

I may be biased, but in NYC, I think they do an excellent job with the subway station names.  They kept it quite simple enough like: Fordham Road, Fort Hamilton Parkway and so on.  Then they get a bit more descriptive when necessary.  In cases where they're point of interests, it often gets included in the station name: 161st Street-Yankee Stadium, 137th Street-City College, Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island, Eastern Parkway-Brooklyn Museum.  Then there's some station names which have the neighborhood as part of the name (mostly in Queens) such as: 179th Street-Jamaica, Roosevelt Avenue-Jackson Heights and so on. 

I think WMATA should keep it simple, but be a bit more descriptive when necessary.  I'm not so sure about the proposed character limit.  I say this because there may be an occasion or two where they need to use the full name.  An example would be like: Ronald Reagan Washington-National Airport.  I personally think it should've stayed as National Airport, but we know what happened with this case.  The decision-makers simply need to use good judgement and/or good 'ol common sense.

[Scrabbleship]

I like Navy Yard-Ballpark.  I wouldn't have minded seeing Stadium-Armory become RFK Stadium-Armory.

Why add an "RFK" when the stadium might not be much longer for this world. When it gets demolished to either build a long-overdue soccer-specific stadium for DC United or to build the alleged DannyDome to bring the Redskins back into DC, that means the name would need to be changed once again.

The hospital thing seems a bit silly to me but I suppose they could do worse.

The issue with the two choices in Montgomery County is that one (Medical Center) has services not available to the general public and the other (Forest Glen) is a pain to get to from the actual station. If Holy Cross began a shuttle to Forest Glen, that would make it a bit more legitimate.

I personally think it should've stayed as National Airport, but we know what happened with this case.

I don't get how never changing it simply to "Reagan National Airport" was never an compromise. Did the GOP force the MWAA to make the changed name match?

I'll toss in my two cents on this matter: Two debatable cases of names were grandfathered at the request of single politicians; Ike Leggett for Grosvenor-Strathmore and Muriel Bowser with Georgia Avenue-Petworth. The latter case gained a lot of ire in Ward 4 of DC as the community had overwhelming support for a subtitle or a name change and Bowser herself overruled them.

Also, as much as the NoMA BID wants to toot NoMA's horn, I have an odd feeling that name never hits signs. I draw the precedent of when Kendall on the MBTA was "Cambridge Center/MIT" for a few years  in the early 80's. Outside of maps (which saw many changes due to the Harvard reconfiguration and Northwest Extension), a few signs in stations, and a rarely-used destination on trains, everything still said "Kendall" even inside not-Kendall itself! The MBTA later settled on the current Kendall/MIT.

Since Gallaudet will fight to the death to keep a name and their requests are sure not to fall on blind eyes, "Florida Ave/Gallaudet U" just barely fits within the limits and is a good compromise.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Wayne:  I'm not sure it is fair to compare the NYC station naming conventions to WMATA's since the NYC stations are much closer together and there are usually many stops within a neighborhood.  Imagine how many Upper West Side stations we would have if they went by WMATA's naming conventions.  I actually don't like how they've added neighborhood names to many of the terminal stations in New York, I'm not sure they really add much to the names.  For example, 148th Street is not the only station in Harlem by any means, why is that one Harlem?  (It isn't even at 148th Street, but that is another matter.) 

Jason:  I personally don't care what the residents of Ward 4 think about the name of their subway station.  Most of them probably aren't even aware that the original name of the station was in fact going to be Petworth, but when the Green Line alignment shifted south, it was decided to add Georgia Avenue because it was no longer in Petworth proper.

The legislation that forced the National Airport name change required it to be Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.  I think Reagan National Airport would have sufficed. 

I also never understood why Mount Vernon Square/7th Street-Convention Center includes 7th Street.  Mount Vernon Square-Convention Center should be OK.  I strongly oppose the proposal some people had of dropping MVS from the station name.  I guess people who got to DC less than an hour ago don't realize that Mount Vernon Square is a neighborhood and that before the Convention Center came along, the square was the nearest significant landmark.

[WayneNYC]

Oren - I'm not at all comparing WMATA's station naming convention to NYCTA's, nor am I suggesting that WMATA go in that direction.  My feeling is that whatever WMATA decides on, it should be such that the station names are descriptive while not being complex and/or too lengthy.

Again, I think NYC does a great job with it's station names, and I understand that NYC's method won't necessarily work on other systems.  In regards to them using the neighorhood name at terminals, I think this is a good idea.  Imagine someone on the n/b plat at 96th Street (Broadway).  If the signage for the #2 train read 241 Street as the destination for the #1 train it read 242nd Street... How would one know that the two terminals are in different areas about 5 miles apart?  The same at 59th St-Columbus Circle.  You and I know that 207th Street-Inwood is quite a disance (and another borough) from 205th Street-Norwood, but we can't assume everyone knows this fact.  The neighborhood name may not mean much for a person unfamiliar with NYC or even upper Manhattan and the Bronx, but seeing Inwood and Norwood does serve a purpose.

My point in mentioning NYC subway is that the station names clearly work well and of the TA's many issues, one complaint I've never heard about the system is the station naming convention. 

[Tritransit Area]

I'm glad they are keeping Georgia Ave-Petworth and Franconia-Springfield

[WayneNYC]

I'm glad they are keeping Georgia Ave-Petworth and Franconia-Springfield

Agreed.  Before I looked at the list, I was thinking Addison Road-Seat Pleasant also should stay as is.  I'm glad it's on the list.  The same for Dunn Loring-Merrifield and Gallery Place-Chinatown.

[SchuminWeb]

When it comes to Georgia Ave-Petworth, that's a good idea to keep "Petworth", because Silver Spring to Glenmont on the Red Line is all roughly along Georgia Avenue.  Otherwise, I'm kind of cold on the "NoMa-Gallaudet U" name, but for a different reason.  Gallaudet U should have been a subtitle there.  I wish it had been "New York Ave-NoMa", personally, since NY Avenue is the cross street in the NoMa area.  And for the record, having NoMa in the name doesn't bother me.

All I know is, I'm the one doing most of the changes on Wikipedia related to this name change, and that's a bit of work.

[Sand Box John]

WMATAGMOAGH

Jason:  I personally don't care what the residents of Ward 4 think about the name of their subway station.  Most of them probably aren't even aware that the original name of the station was in fact going to be Petworth, but when the Green Line alignment shifted south, it was decided to add Georgia Avenue because it was no longer in Petworth proper.

Actually Oren there is a little more to the story. The 03 01 1968 ARS had 2 station along Kansas Avenue between Columbia Heights and Fort Totten, Georgia Avenue at Georgia and Kansas Avenues and Petworth at Sherman Circle.  The Petworth station at Sherman Circle was deleted in the 02 11 1970 ARS, the station name at Georgia Avenue remained the same. The Kansas Avenue alignment was moved south to the Park Road and New Hampshire Avenue in the late 1970s, the station at Hampshire Avenue was named Georgia Avenue. Petworth was tacked onto the name sometime between the alignment change and the beginning of construction.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

WMATAGMOAGH

Jason:  I personally don't care what the residents of Ward 4 think about the name of their subway station.  Most of them probably aren't even aware that the original name of the station was in fact going to be Petworth, but when the Green Line alignment shifted south, it was decided to add Georgia Avenue because it was no longer in Petworth proper.

Actually Oren there is a little more to the story. The 03 01 1968 ARS had 2 station along Kansas Avenue between Columbia Heights and Fort Totten, Georgia Avenue at Georgia and Kansas Avenues and Petworth at Sherman Circle.  The Petworth station at Sherman Circle was deleted in the 02 11 1970 ARS, the station name at Georgia Avenue remained the same. The Kansas Avenue alignment was moved south to the Park Road and New Hampshire Avenue in the late 1970s, the station at Hampshire Avenue was named Georgia Avenue. Petworth was tacked onto the name sometime between the alignment change and the beginning of construction.

John, thanks for the explanation.

Oren - I'm not at all comparing WMATA's station naming convention to NYCTA's, nor am I suggesting that WMATA go in that direction.  My feeling is that whatever WMATA decides on, it should be such that the station names are descriptive while not being complex and/or too lengthy.

Again, I think NYC does a great job with it's station names, and I understand that NYC's method won't necessarily work on other systems.  In regards to them using the neighorhood name at terminals, I think this is a good idea.  Imagine someone on the n/b plat at 96th Street (Broadway).  If the signage for the #2 train read 241 Street as the destination for the #1 train it read 242nd Street... How would one know that the two terminals are in different areas about 5 miles apart?  The same at 59th St-Columbus Circle.  You and I know that 207th Street-Inwood is quite a disance (and another borough) from 205th Street-Norwood, but we can't assume everyone knows this fact.  The neighborhood name may not mean much for a person unfamiliar with NYC or even upper Manhattan and the Bronx, but seeing Inwood and Norwood does serve a purpose.

My point in mentioning NYC subway is that the station names clearly work well and of the TA's many issues, one complaint I've never heard about the system is the station naming convention. 

Wayne, sorry for the misunderstanding (and delay in replying, I was on vacation for the past week).  I had actually never considered the Inwood versus Norwood difference for the A and D and thought of it that way, thanks for the additional perspective.