WMATA Gave Back all of the LFAs

[Annex4421]

Could this even be done I was thinking about this lately.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Why would they want to do this?

[79MetroExtraMD]

I would doubt someone who spent millions of dollars on vehicles would give all of them back.

[WayneNYC]

Give them back to whom?  The Feds?  I don't get the question.  Why would they get rid of them, barring any major problems?

[aznboy4305]

Buses must be brought back within 30 days with a receipt for a full refund.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Buses must be brought back within 30 days with a receipt for a full refund.

*rummages through the trash can to find the receipt*

[Tritransit Area]

There'd be a severe bus shortage, and other systems may make out with some dirt cheap brand new hybrids!

At least New Flyer would be able to sell them on their site: http://www.newflyer.com/index/fleet-sale

[Scrabbleship]

There'd be a severe bus shortage, and other systems may make out with some dirt cheap brand new hybrids!

At least New Flyer would be able to sell them on their site: http://www.newflyer.com/index/fleet-sale

I'd swap the last of the LFA's to get some of the OC Transpo D60LF's they're hawking on there! WMATA can use more artics and here they can get them on the cheap and test how a 3-door artic would work in DC. Replace the last (to-be-delivered) part of the LFA with those and it'd be a win-win for all involved.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Again I ask, why spend the millions of dollars on NEW buses only to get USED buses. It's not so much as they need tics, its a matter of resource allocation and budgeting. Alot of lines are going to be busy granted the service demand, it's a matter of that you can't put an artic on every single line. Even on the S line when they had tics, they were packed.

[Scrabbleship]

Again I ask, why spend the millions of dollars on NEW buses only to get USED buses. It's not so much as they need tics, its a matter of resource allocation and budgeting. Alot of lines are going to be busy granted the service demand, it's a matter of that you can't put an artic on every single line. Even on the S line when they had tics, they were packed.

I think that if there were more artics, they could be deployed to more routes that need them and buying some of the ex-OC Transpo models would be a good experiment at limited cost. Adding about 50 or so additional artics would allow for more artics to run on the S's/50's from Northern and J's/Z's from Montgomery and allow for artic service to be preserved on the R2/U8 as well as introducing them to Landover and maybe FMR.

This is doable if they reject the last bit of the LFA order (a la the rest of the 4400's) and only get enough LFA's so that the Flxibles* can be replaced. From the looks of the numbers, it looks like they want to get enough to push the Orion VI's into reserve. Rejecting the LFA's and buying secondhand artics would merely save money and increase capacity and, if this came sooner, could've sped the retirement of the remaining 5200's on the X2.

* Way to spend Post #870 on the retirement of the successor to the Grumman 870!

[79MetroExtraMD]

I don't think it would be in their mindset to get second hand buses. It puts into perspective a different MDBF rate as well as underlying maintenance and repair costs that might not be feasable. Also, again, its a matter of scheduling and resource management that allows to use the best resources at a lower cost. Imagine if you had an run that gets busy at rush hour but has to go all night. Would it be feasable to run a mainly empty 60 foot bus on a run for that whole trip or just run a regular 40 footer with added service during rush hour? This is why we have increased services during rush hour. Granted alot of lines are busy, there are other options for getting to places.

[Scrabbleship]

I don't think it would be in their mindset to get second hand buses. It puts into perspective a different MDBF rate as well as underlying maintenance and repair costs that might not be feasable. Also, again, its a matter of scheduling and resource management that allows to use the best resources at a lower cost. Imagine if you had an run that gets busy at rush hour but has to go all night. Would it be feasable to run a mainly empty 60 foot bus on a run for that whole trip or just run a regular 40 footer with added service during rush hour? This is why we have increased services during rush hour. Granted alot of lines are busy, there are other options for getting to places.

This happens all the time at Montgomery when an oddball artic runs at night on the J2 and usually gets just as full. People don't seem to mind it one bit in all honesty.

Putting more artics in the system only will make things easier on routes that are already packed and they might be the magic pill that'd help out in PG County if new leadership there doesn't make transit a priority. I've never ridden the R2, but haven't their borrowing of the 60BRT's helped crowding on that route and are people dreading the return of mostly C40LF service?

Secondhand artics would allow for a low-cost way to experiment with new arrangements at limited cost, somewhat similar to Southwest taking on Airtran's Boeing 717's.

[79MetroExtraMD]

I don't think it would be in their mindset to get second hand buses. It puts into perspective a different MDBF rate as well as underlying maintenance and repair costs that might not be feasable. Also, again, its a matter of scheduling and resource management that allows to use the best resources at a lower cost. Imagine if you had an run that gets busy at rush hour but has to go all night. Would it be feasable to run a mainly empty 60 foot bus on a run for that whole trip or just run a regular 40 footer with added service during rush hour? This is why we have increased services during rush hour. Granted alot of lines are busy, there are other options for getting to places.

This happens all the time at Montgomery when an oddball artic runs at night on the J2 and usually gets just as full. People don't seem to mind it one bit in all honesty.

Putting more artics in the system only will make things easier on routes that are already packed and they might be the magic pill that'd help out in PG County if new leadership there doesn't make transit a priority. I've never ridden the R2, but haven't their borrowing of the 60BRT's helped crowding on that route and are people dreading the return of mostly C40LF service?

Secondhand artics would allow for a low-cost way to experiment with new arrangements at limited cost, somewhat similar to Southwest taking on Airtran's Boeing 717's.

The general idea of artics on a route is where there is a reduction in service or extended headways and not so much capacity. There are a couple J2s that interline into the J7/9 and even the Z11. The tics that you see on the J line might be the ones that were used on an earlier Z11 run.

Also, putting tics on already packed routes might not have a really good effect on service if the headways are still the same. Reducing the headways and adding a run or so might help with the crowding plus as I said before, there are other options to getting from point A to B. The other explanation is that there might be a general increase in ridership but due to budget constraints, it's probably not feasible to have an increase in services that could generate more expenses than savings. The R line still has a couple artics but most of them were put on the X line, same goes for the U8.

Going back to your statement about getting 50 artics, there's a problem with that. You still have alot of older buses and even if you could replace them, I seriously doubt you could fit an additional 50 artics in spaces that a 40 foot bus generally has. Not all garages have full length 60 foot parking spaces. Most of the older buses are still around mainly as contingency but I seriously don't see the whole point of adding more artics to routes. You still have to tell me which routes are busy and at what times. If it's rush hour, thats self explanatory, but at other times, it might due to the headways.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Getting extra artics for a route like the R2 where funding isn't likely to come through to increase service on the route, if demand actually warrants such a move, might make sense.  Artics on the J2 aren't so necessary and are more likely to be used as a mechanism for cutting service.

The Boeing 717s that SWA is about to have on their hands don't fit this analogy.  SWA bought Airtran and will get their fleet, whatever that fleet may be.  WMATA isn't about to buy out any other local TA and acquire its fleet.

[Scrabbleship]

Getting extra artics for a route like the R2 where funding isn't likely to come through to increase service on the route, if demand actually warrants such a move, might make sense.  Artics on the J2 aren't so necessary and are more likely to be used as a mechanism for cutting service.

Getting extra artics for routes where funding increases is rare is a good idea. Though I wouldn't do this with secondhand artics, getting artics purpose-built for 5A/B30 service also is good as those routes often leave terminals crowded. In regards to the J2, that route is usually full between Bethesda and Silver Spring at all hours and if service isn't going to be boosted outside rush hour I think the current headways could easily support an artic. What I wonder is once the new garages start to be built if it'll increase the number of artics in the system.

I think a lot of the "replacing normal buses" debate comes from how you utilize such a switch. With some agencies replacing 40' high floor buses with 60' low-floor artics, the old fashioned "3 40' buses = 2 60' buses, let's cut service to fit" mantra seems to be going out of the window. I know Boston didn't slice service for artics and I don't think Baltimore is going to cut service on the 8 with the CTA rejects coming.