Farragut North: Both Escalators going up?

[Scrabbleship]

Twice in the last week, my travels have taken me to Farragut North during the morning rush. Both times, I noticed something a bit odd that could be a cause for alarm.

The platform-to-mezzanine escalators going towards the K Street exit were both going up. I understand the majority of foot traffic is going towards K Street, but why do such a thing when in the evening rush both of those escalators aren't going down. Is this common or just typical WMATA head-scratching dumbness?

[Sand Box John]

Scrabbleship
Twice in the last week, my travels have taken me to Farragut North during the morning rush. Both times, I noticed something a bit odd that could be a cause for alarm.

The platform-to-mezzanine escalators going towards the K Street exit were both going up. I understand the majority of foot traffic is going towards K Street, but why do such a thing when in the evening rush both of those escalators aren't going down. Is this common or just typical WMATA head-scratching dumbness?

From the prospective of passenger flow this make complete and total sense to me. Each discharge of a train generates a burst of exiting passenger. The flow of passenger entering the station during the PM is constant so there is no need to have both going down. It is better to accommodate the flow of exiting passenger at that time of day then to accommodate the few that are entering. Did you bother to check the direction of the other pair of escalators connecting that same mezzanine to the platform?

[Scrabbleship]

Scrabbleship
Twice in the last week, my travels have taken me to Farragut North during the morning rush. Both times, I noticed something a bit odd that could be a cause for alarm.

The platform-to-mezzanine escalators going towards the K Street exit were both going up. I understand the majority of foot traffic is going towards K Street, but why do such a thing when in the evening rush both of those escalators aren't going down. Is this common or just typical WMATA head-scratching dumbness?

From the prospective of passenger flow this make complete and total sense to me. Each discharge of a train generates a burst of exiting passenger. The flow of passenger entering the station during the PM is constant so there is no need to have both going down. It is better to accommodate the flow of exiting passenger at that time of day then to accommodate the few that are entering. Did you bother to check the direction of the other pair of escalators connecting that same mezzanine to the platform?

Both times one down/one up for the L street escalators.

A couple years ago when looking for jobs, I used Farragut North (the majority of staffing agencies in DC are located in/near Farragut Square) a bunch of times in the morning rush and it always was the typical one-up/one-down. If this makes so much sense, why not try it at other stations in the system with heavy flow in peak that have island platforms (i.e. Union Station North)?

[Sand Box John]

Scrabbleship
If this makes so much sense, why not try it at other stations in the system with heavy flow in peak that have island platforms (i.e. Union Station North)?

Union Station north only has 2 escalators between the mezzanine and the platform, no stairs and 1 elevator, where as the mid platform mezzanine at Farragut North has 4 escalators.

[Scrabbleship]

Scrabbleship
If this makes so much sense, why not try it at other stations in the system with heavy flow in peak that have island platforms (i.e. Union Station North)?

Union Station north only has 2 escalators between the mezzanine and the platform, no stairs and 1 elevator, where as the mid platform mezzanine at Farragut North has 4 escalators.

It's also a case of one mezzanine versus two. Still might be a smart decision for the absolute peak-of-peak when MARC/VRE passengers clog Union Station North and, like in the case of Farragut North, there is an elevator for those who absolutely must go in the reverse direction.

Having used Union Station North during peak-of-peak many times in the PM rush (and once, with luggage and friend, heading back from BWI in AM rush), I think it could work and that the "detour" into that part of Union Station (out Union Station South, then up through the food court) isn't that much longer.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

The number of people who need to get out from Union Station north in the mornings would overwhelm the elevator if that was the only option you gave them, that elevator is already well utilized by people with luggage.  People are going to be nothing short of pissed when they get to that mezzanine in the morning to discover it is exit only.  This is why WMATA wants to possibly charge a surcharge to fund improvements at this particular station, but IIRC, you are opposed to such a plan.  See what the surcharge would allow WMATA to fix by expanding that north mezzanine?

The difference at Farragut North is you can go up the escalator that is marked for L Street West side and then make a U turn and go out to K Street.  You can't do that at Union Station.

[Scrabbleship]

The number of people who need to get out from Union Station north in the mornings would overwhelm the elevator if that was the only option you gave them, that elevator is already well utilized by people with luggage.

Wouldn't most of the people heading to Union Station in AM Rush be heading to work and not to what little outbound Amtrak/VRE service there is? I can't see the number of people wanting to get out of Union Station North in AM Rush.

Case in point: The one time I used it in AM Rush was a day when one escalator was down. I could count the number of people going up the one escalator/elevator on both hands while there were at least 100 people waiting to go down with lines stretching to the faregates.

This is why WMATA wants to possibly charge a surcharge to fund improvements at this particular station, but IIRC, you are opposed to such a plan.  See what the surcharge would allow WMATA to fix by expanding that north mezzanine?

Now isn't the time that WMATA needs to be adding additional surcharges to fares. To ask riders to do that after complicating an already complicated fare structure and a major fare hike in a time when people aren't getting for is just simple greed and nickel-and-diming. Perhaps if Metro ended peak fares and went the BART route (one fixed distance-based fare), I could see it but right now Metro's already on thin ice and will probably fall in.

Why is it that no other agency nickel-and-dimes riders the way WMATA can? Wake me when SEPTA adds a surcharge to Girard (BSS) or MTA adds a surcharge to Chambers Street (BMT) to fix those stations.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

So you are opposed to raising the money to expand the mezzanine but you have no problem screwing lots of people who need to use that exit against the peak flow.  Union Station isn't like Navy Yard before or after a baseball game, I can assure you that the number of people going against the flow during the peak is more than "no one" or just a handful of people.

[Scrabbleship]

So you are opposed to raising the money to expand the mezzanine but you have no problem screwing lots of people who need to use that exit against the peak flow.  Union Station isn't like Navy Yard before or after a baseball game, I can assure you that the number of people going against the flow during the peak is more than "no one" or just a handful of people.

Who really "needs" to use that exit who can't take the relatively minor inconvenience of going up the south exit (whose northernmost escalators are under 300 feet from Union Station North) and up through the food court to the trains? It isn't that long of a detour and for those who aren't using Union Station it's actually a time savings if you leave the building.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Anyone needing the elevator needs to use that side.  Anyone wanting to go out to 1st Street, NE needs to use that side.  It isn't exactly an insignificant detour or minor inconvenience for someone going to catch a train with luggage (try dragging a year's worth of possessions through the Metro sometime).  If you don't want to go "outside" there are steps between the Metro mezzanine and the station entrance by the food court.  And, most importantly, a fact I remembered after my last post, I have never heard of an entry only entrance to a subway station anywhere in the world aside from at Navy Yard after baseball games, and that station isn't exactly high use at those times.  Exit only, either temporarily due to crowding or on a scheduled basis as they do in London at some stations is a common way to control crowding and easy to implement, because it is easy to tell people at the station entrance to go somewhere else.  But you don't want a crowd of people forming on the platform angry that they can't get out, not to mention it can be a safety hazard.  And going back to Union Station, how many tourists and visitors of Washington are going to be pleased when they try entering the Metro at Union Station and discover they can't get in or get out where they expected to?  Not a great possible first impression.

[Scrabbleship]

A little update: This morning, after nearly 2 weeks not using Farragut North, saw that not only both K Street escalators were set to up, but one of the L Street escalators is down for repairs. This makes things a bit dangerous for passengers boarding at Farragut North in AM Rush as they have to battle with exiting passengers using the L Street exit to go down to the platform. In fact, I saw a good number of boarding passengers using the south elevator just to get out of the chaos.

Is this situation really right to boarding passengers to have to go through extreme measures to get to the platform? Couldn't the K Street crowd live with one escalator like every other station for the time being. I say convert them all to stairs at this point.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

If an L Street escalator is down for repairs, it probably makes sense to have 1 up and 1 down on the K Street side and have the remaining L Street escalator be stationary. 

If every thing is up and running, then the situation as you described it before is probably acceptable.

Farragut North wouldn't be a bad place to abandon the shorter escalators in favor of stairs since the station is so shallow compared to most others on the Metrorail, but there are stations where that wouldn't work so well IMO.

[Scrabbleship]

If an L Street escalator is down for repairs, it probably makes sense to have 1 up and 1 down on the K Street side and have the remaining L Street escalator be stationary. 

If every thing is up and running, then the situation as you described it before is probably acceptable.

I could've been a little clearer in describing the situation: Both K Street escalators were set to up, the one L Street escalator was stationary. This gives only two options for passengers headed into the system.

1: Battle the passengers trying to exit at L Street.
2: Take the elevator down to the platform.

Though I still think K Street should be 1 up/1 down as it is the rest of the time (I don't see why both aren't going down in PM Rush if the AM use warrants a second up escalator), for the purposes of safety and congestion it should be 1 up/1 down while L Street is down to 1 escalator. Of course, this is the same agency that has let the Dupont Circle, Foggy Bottom, and Bethesda problems fester for months and months.

Farragut North wouldn't be a bad place to abandon the shorter escalators in favor of stairs since the station is so shallow compared to most others on the Metrorail, but there are stations where that wouldn't work so well IMO.

Agreed! Pretty much anywhere north of it would be a massive failure for stairs. What I don't get is why they didn't do like Friendship Heights South and put in elevator-only exits at busier stations.

[SchuminWeb]

Agreed! Pretty much anywhere north of it would be a massive failure for stairs. What I don't get is why they didn't do like Friendship Heights South and put in elevator-only exits at busier stations.

I think it's because every time there's a big thunderstorm, they end up having to close Forest Glen with its elevator-only exit due to power outages.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Escalators can double as stairs in an emergency or when broken.  Elevators can't, which makes evacuation difficult.  I think the reason Friendship Heights South is elevator only is because it wasn't part of the original station design and was added later, so they had nowhere to have the escalator come out, but they did own the land where the elevators are already.  John, is this accurate or was the logic something else?

There isn't a problem festering at Bethesda AFAIK.  One platform escalator is out due to maintenance.  The long ones there usually work fine, it probably helps that they are under cover.  The problem at Bethesda is that unlike at some stations, which have directional flows of a sort during rush hours, Bethesda does not, and there are many people both entering and exiting during both rush hours.

Jason, I understood the situation and agree with you about how it should be if an L Street escalator is down.  I don't know why they both don't get set to down for the PM rushi, as I explained in another thread, it might be a safety thing and also there is a notion that you can create an exit only situation but that you never want an entry only situation.  In light of how many people exit at Farragut North during the morning compared to entrering, if all escalators are working, I see no issue with having both escalators going up.  It seems as if part or all of your issue is that it is inconvenient for you.