Ride On News

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Question about the Silver Spring changes (to which there may be no real answer):

How are buses going to be routed upon arriving at Silver Spring now?  For example, an incoming 15 that was heading out as a 1 could just go straight to the 1 bay and discharge there.  Are drivers just going to take whatever route they want to get to the appropriate bay, or is interlining going to be limited?

[Perry]

How are you going to change an interline without a new pick?  That's part of an operator's run.  The routes that change to another one would just park wherever the route they're leaving as.

[rideonrulez]

Aw damn. All hell bout to break loose. As for accessing the Metro station, how will that be situated, plus, any idea on the bus bay locations. The Metro evac maps sort of give an idea but I found some errors (such as the MTA commuter buses being at Bay V).

All the bay assignments are posted up around the terminal/downtown Silver Spring though covered. Just got to look for them 

You think it will be for 26-30 months. As optimistic as you are and as much inside information as you know, I doubt it. Look at the delays in actually getting things started, wasn't it supposed to be finished by now?

Would it be possible for the J's and S's to do discharges at the Ride On/MTA stop at the corner of Colesville and East-West? It would be very defeatist to pass under the Metro and not stop then force everyone to backtrack.

I'm an optimistic person but honestly, I doubt it will be done in the time they gave us. Though there will be alot of pressure to get it done on time from the local property owners (Discovery, Hines, ETC...)

Also about that stop at Colesville & East West northbound far side, Sorry to say BUT it will no longer be served by Ride On when the construction starts. WMATA has never served it, but MTA will continue to serve it only. So yes, buses will bypass and go all the way up to the IOS and alight there. There is a reason behind it.....

I just found out that Ride On will have 16 additional 40' Gillig Advantage clean diesel buses to go along with the 5 it already has.

Didn't I mention this a few times already? Where have you been? 

How are buses going to be routed upon arriving at Silver Spring now?  For example, an incoming 15 that was heading out as a 1 could just go straight to the 1 bay and discharge there.  Are drivers just going to take whatever route they want to get to the appropriate bay, or is interlining going to be limited?

Wow very good technical question and yes I have an answer but it might be a long explanation. When the IOS starts, you will see less interlining then we do today in Silver Spring. Reason being is that now we have some routes on one side of the street (Example A:1,2,5,12,13,17) and some others routes (Example B: 14,15,16,19,20) on the other side. So what i tried to do for example was if you come in as a 5 (A side) you will leave out on any route that serves on the A side and vice versa. So that way they know which side to pull in on except as noted on there runsheets. Now they will switch sides quite a bit during peak hours because the heavy routes for example are pulling in (B side) at AM rush are weak pulling out in the AM BUT the (A side) is heavy pulling out in the AM. The situation is opposite in the PM obviously.

This is easier to explain in person then typing, sorry if you don't understand 

[Perry]

How does this affect things if it's mid-pick?  Someone that picks a route that interlines with a certain route but doesn't now, is that a problem with the union?  Do your operators actually have a union? 

That type of scheduling gives me a headache just thinking about it.  We have detour galore out here all the time but nothing that would complicate things THAT much!! Good for you for working that out. I hope it goes as smoothly as possible.  It's going to take a lot of education to the passengers so they can figure out what's going on.

[Scrabbleship]

I'm an optimistic person but honestly, I doubt it will be done in the time they gave us. Though there will be alot of pressure to get it done on time from the local property owners (Discovery, Hines, ETC...)

Also about that stop at Colesville & East West northbound far side, Sorry to say BUT it will no longer be served by Ride On when the construction starts. WMATA has never served it, but MTA will continue to serve it only. So yes, buses will bypass and go all the way up to the IOS and alight there. There is a reason behind it.....

Two words about that: BAD MOVE
Whatever the reason, it has to be lame because it takes people WAY out of their way for nothing. Why break further what wasn't broken? Whoever did this should be relieved of their duties because they are inconveniencing the riding public and will hurt Silver Spring in the long run.

The transit center is a massive waste of time since it is going to only make things worse, far worse. Sure, you'll have a gleaming building but you'll have nobody to enjoy it after all the petty crime and the disability advocates get to you.

Restore the discharge stop at Colesville and East-West for the safety of your riders or else there will be a LOT less people wanting to go to Silver Spring since its lifeline has been cut for nothing. Sarbannes deserved better than this waste of time and the money would have been better spent on raising the ceiling a foot at Friendship Heights.

[79MetroExtraMD]

I'm an optimistic person but honestly, I doubt it will be done in the time they gave us. Though there will be alot of pressure to get it done on time from the local property owners (Discovery, Hines, ETC...)

Also about that stop at Colesville & East West northbound far side, Sorry to say BUT it will no longer be served by Ride On when the construction starts. WMATA has never served it, but MTA will continue to serve it only. So yes, buses will bypass and go all the way up to the IOS and alight there. There is a reason behind it.....

Two words about that: BAD MOVE
Whatever the reason, it has to be lame because it takes people WAY out of their way for nothing. Why break further what wasn't broken? Whoever did this should be relieved of their duties because they are inconveniencing the riding public and will hurt Silver Spring in the long run.

The transit center is a massive waste of time since it is going to only make things worse, far worse. Sure, you'll have a gleaming building but you'll have nobody to enjoy it after all the petty crime and the disability advocates get to you.

Restore the discharge stop at Colesville and East-West for the safety of your riders or else there will be a LOT less people wanting to go to Silver Spring since its lifeline has been cut for nothing. Sarbannes deserved better than this waste of time and the money would have been better spent on raising the ceiling a foot at Friendship Heights.

The current terminal is way over capacity than it used to be when it first opened. You didn't have like 30 routes or so operating out of the same terminal with just 12 bays. Over the years, more routes started being added and capacity had increased. Today, it is a nightmare trying to get into the station and out of the station for both Metro and Ride On with trying to navigate around traffic on Wayne and Colesville. There are bottlenecks getting through the lower bays with a slew of Metrobuses alighting, laying over, boarding, and leaving all at the same time. This is nothing more than Pentagon station when it outgrew its old terminal. The new terminal has an easier traffic flow, divides commuter/express buses and local routes. I remember the time I went down to VA with my mother and caught the 22A up toward Ballston. It was very confusing trying to figure out where the buses were and what to take. Also, the new terminal is pushed out a bit further from the Pentagon building (for security reasons I would think).

The new Sarbanes Transit Center is supposed to combine different modes of transit in one hub. MARC, Greyhound, Metrobus, Ride On, and MTA commuter bus. Obviously, the months during construction will be difficult with having to change travel habits, but you have to look at the end product instead of the means. I don't think the amount of people wanting to go to Silver Spring will decrease since it is a very populous area and a great shopping district. Plus, alot of commuters work in the general area. It isn't a waste of time because this was long overdue and the new terminal will provide for more expansion (and the future Purple Line). All I have to say is: It will be a headache for a while, but once things are done, it will be easier to travel. You just have to be patient.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Wow very good technical question and yes I have an answer but it might be a long explanation. When the IOS starts, you will see less interlining then we do today in Silver Spring. Reason being is that now we have some routes on one side of the street (Example A:1,2,5,12,13,17) and some others routes (Example B: 14,15,16,19,20) on the other side. So what i tried to do for example was if you come in as a 5 (A side) you will leave out on any route that serves on the A side and vice versa. So that way they know which side to pull in on except as noted on there runsheets. Now they will switch sides quite a bit during peak hours because the heavy routes for example are pulling in (B side) at AM rush are weak pulling out in the AM BUT the (A side) is heavy pulling out in the AM. The situation is opposite in the PM obviously.

This is easier to explain in person then typing, sorry if you don't understand   

I get it, thanks for the explanation/answer.


Scrabbleship, seeing as most of the bus connections have moved, not having that last stop before Silver Spring won't be the end of the world.  You could always get off the bus at the last stop on EW Highway and walk to the Metro if you think that will be faster.  I don't see how you came to the conclusion that the construction of this transit center is a waste of time, it is going to be destroyed by crime once it opens, lifelines being cut, etc.  I can assure you that changing the height of the Friendship Heights Station would be a far worse use of time and money.

[Scrabbleship]

I can understand the construction and its needs, but what wouldn't be good about raising the ceiling at Friendship Heights? When in 10-15 years the majority of the fleet of WMATA and Ride On can't access most of the bays due to the policy barring hybrids and CNG's from going inside, the choices would be to raise the ceiling or change the policy and I can't se the latter happening.

Thank God I'm moving a block and a half from the Metro the day the policy comes into play...

[WMATAGMOAGH]

You can't just lower the roadway at Friendship Heights by 12 inches without compromising the integrity of the office building that sits on top of the bus station. 

As has been discussed here, hybrids and CNGs do fit at FH, even though WMATA's policy dictates that they not operate inside the terminal. 

[Scrabbleship]

As has been discussed here, hybrids and CNGs do fit at FH, even though WMATA's policy dictates that they not operate inside the terminal. 

Thing is when will WMATA policy compromise common sense. In a future when most of WMATA's buses are CNG or hybrid and can't go inside, what would WMATA do? Changing the policy might be their only option in the future outside of abandoning the terminal and routing everything on Wisconsin/Western. WMATA brought this upon themselves by putting in a limited clearance and then by putting in an asinine policy.

[Perry]

When that whole thing was built, I don't even think anyone thought the buses would be that tall.  But, it has been proven that CNG buses can fit in there now. 

You can have all the foresight in the world, but nobody knows how the designs will change or what other challenge may come their way.  They just have to go with the flow.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

As has been discussed here, hybrids and CNGs do fit at FH, even though WMATA's policy dictates that they not operate inside the terminal. 

Thing is when will WMATA policy compromise common sense. In a future when most of WMATA's buses are CNG or hybrid and can't go inside, what would WMATA do? Changing the policy might be their only option in the future outside of abandoning the terminal and routing everything on Wisconsin/Western. WMATA brought this upon themselves by putting in a limited clearance and then by putting in an asinine policy.

When the terminal renovation started, the number of CNGs and hybrids in the area was quite small.  The only times those buses came to Friendship Heights was on the T2 on the weekends (and that was pretty rare, the T2 almost always got 96/98 Orion Vs and the occasional 99 Gillig), the trippers on the even 30s, and the trippers on the Es (which stop outside the terminal).  Even now, the number of CNGs and hybrids that potentially have to enter the terminal is minimal.  The T2 got moved outside, the 30s have been restructured so few if any trips from Bladensburg operate to Friendship Heights and even before that, redoing the runs so they ended at Tenleytown isn't a huge deal, the Es and L7/L8 were already outside.  The weekend T2 now comes out of Silver Spring instead of Gaithersburg.  The 42 (now 34), 1/11, and 23 are the only Ride-On routes that use hybrids, and the 42/34 stop outside.  IIRC, Western Division isn't even capable of servicing hybrids at the moment.  So the only time hybrids or CNGs need to access the inside of the terminal is for the 1/11, 23, and even 30s.

But put all that analysis aside for a moment.  Perry hit it on the nose when he said no foresight could have predicted this issue.  I'm not sure when the building was constructed over the terminal, but the Metro station opened in 1984.  There weren't any CNG or HEV buses then.

The current policy isn't asinine, it is logical to a point.  If and when they really need to operate a large number of CNGs and hybrids into the terminal, they can.  Until they really need to, they won't.

Also, there was a proposal to abandon the terminal as part of the Friendship Heights redevelopment plan and move it to where the Hechts or whatever it is now called is currently standing.  The current bus terminal would have been converted to a kiss and ride.

[aznboy4305]

I can understand the construction and its needs, but what wouldn't be good about raising the ceiling at Friendship Heights? When in 10-15 years the majority of the fleet of WMATA and Ride On can't access most of the bays due to the policy barring hybrids and CNG's from going inside, the choices would be to raise the ceiling or change the policy and I can't se the latter happening.

Really?? Wow! I never knew that was a good idea! Why don't I just head over there tonight, pick the building up and stick a few wooden blocks underneath it. Ahh so simple, I wonder why WMATA never thought of doing that.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Run down on the stop locations. I'm sure the brochures will go out to the public soon. An operator of mine showed me the brochure that Transit gave her so she could get her stop locations down before the curtain goes up on Sept. 28th. The brochure (pdf format) is at the SSTC site at http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/sstc

Wayne Avenue stops (purple)
Stop A (The Jughandle)
F4, F6

No B. I dunno why.

Stop C (Wayne Ave. opp. Ramsey)
Z line locals (Z2, 6, 8 )

Stop D (Wayne Ave. midblock)
Z11, Z13

Stop E (Wayne @ Discovery Pl. opp. Dixon farside)
Z9, Z29

Stop F (Wayne @ Discovery Pl. nearside)
J line (J1, J2, J3)

Stop G (Wayne @ Georgia farside)
RO2 Lyttonsville
RO9 Wheaton
J4 Bethesda

Stop H (Wayne @ Ramsey farside)
70, 71

Stop I (Wayne Ave. midblock in front of Howard Univ. bldg.)
79 Metro Extra

Stop J (Wayne @ Dixon nearside)
S line (S2, S4)

Stop K (Wayne @ Dixon farside near Subway)
RO2 Silver Spring
RO9 Silver Spring
J4 College Park

Stop L (Wayne @ Georgia)
free

Dixon Avenue stops (green)

Stop M (Dixon @ Wayne)
free

Stop N (Dixon @ Bonifant)
RO 8, 18, 21, 22

Stop O (Dixon midblock)
Y line (Y5, 7, 8, 9)
(I'll be suprised at how this is gonna work for them since they got that immediate left on Georgia)

Stop P (Dixon midblock)
Q line (Q2)

Stop Q (Dixon @ Bonfiant NS)
J5 Twinbrook

Bonifant Street stops (orange)

Stop R (Bonifant under the garage)
RO 1/11, 3, 4, 5

Stop S (Bonifant under the garage)
free

Stop T (Bonifant under the garage)
RO 12, 13, 17

Stop U (Bonifant under the garage NS Dixon)
free

Stop V (Bonifant @ Dixon opp. garage)
Shuttle-UM, Montgomery College

Stop W (Bonifant under the garage)
free

Stop X (Bonifant under the garage)
RO 14, 15

Stop Y (Bonifant under the garage)
free

Stop Z (Bonifant under the garage)
RO 16, 20

Also, VanGo will operate at Stop A in the jughandle.

[btconet]

Two words about that: BAD MOVE
Whatever the reason, it has to be lame because it takes people WAY out of their way for nothing. Why break further what wasn't broken? Whoever did this should be relieved of their duties because they are inconveniencing the riding public and will hurt Silver Spring in the long run.

The transit center is a massive waste of time since it is going to only make things worse, far worse. Sure, you'll have a gleaming building but you'll have nobody to enjoy it after all the petty crime and the disability advocates get to you.

Are you sure about that?

I went out to Silver Spring yesterday to get some Flxible videos the traffic around the "jughandle" looked like a middle school fire drill.  Here's video of the debacle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmANr9-7Y_g

The biggest "waste of time" that I could see was the current one in which buses sit for several minutes in a futile attempt to reach the terminal.  Only those who took the law into their own hands were ever going to make it into the terminal.

Stick a fork in the current Silver Spring - it's done.