Are NABIs still on the U8?

[LandoverDivision]

NABI 60-BRTs. Those are a waste of space. Too big and heavy. What a waste.

[Tristan]

This from the #1 fan of the DE42LFA?? O.O

[LandoverDivision]

This from the #1 fan of the DE42LFA?? O.O

Yes this is coming from "The # 1 fan of the DE42LFA". I definitly don't have a problem admitting that I am the # 1 fan of them. Go LFAs!

[Annex4421]

This from the #1 fan of the DE42LFA?? O.O

Yes this is coming from "The # 1 fan of the DE42LFA". I definitly don't have a problem admitting that I am the # 1 fan of them. Go LFAs!

Yeah yeah its all about the D40LFRs. Go LFRs!!!!!!

[Tristan]

Not to start up the debate again, but how is the 60-BRT, which is the same length as a standard 60' bus, a "waste", being "too big and too heavy", when the DE42LFA has 2 feet of extra plastic with no extra capacity is the best bus WMATA ever bought??  I'm just curious about how your opinions work.

[NewFlyer9736BCT]

Not to start up the debate again, but how is the 60-BRT, which is the same length as a standard 60' bus, a "waste", being "too big and too heavy", when the DE42LFA has 2 feet of extra plastic with no extra capacity is the best bus WMATA ever bought??  I'm just curious about how your opinions work.

I agree...in terms of the exterior, the 2 artics don't seem to have much of a difference.

[Annex4421]

Not to start up the debate again, but how is the 60-BRT, which is the same length as a standard 60' bus, a "waste", being "too big and too heavy", when the DE42LFA has 2 feet of extra plastic with no extra capacity is the best bus WMATA ever bought??  I'm just curious about how your opinions work.

Me too but 1st Tristan how you and some of the forum fam that loves the 42/43/4400s but don't like the 21/2200s. They are the same bus, yes 21/2200s A/C compressors sound different I know I'm not the expert of buses but how does you guys opinions work. What makes them any different from the 42/43/4400s Nothing, the 2100s sound better, and have better A/C, other than that same bus. Its like saying you like Sierra Mist but hate sprite, makes no sense. So once again a BRT bus is a BRT bus, made with plastic so again what's the difference between a NABI BRT and a New Flyer BRT nothing but a plastic version of their regular products.

[WayneNYC]

Not to start up the debate again, but how is the 60-BRT, which is the same length as a standard 60' bus, a "waste", being "too big and too heavy", when the DE42LFA has 2 feet of extra plastic with no extra capacity is the best bus WMATA ever bought??  I'm just curious about how your opinions work.

Me too but 1st Tristan how you and some of the forum fam that loves the 42/43/4400s but don't like the 21/2200s. They are the same bus, yes 21/2200s A/C compressors sound different I know I'm not the expert of buses but how does you guys opinions work. What makes them any different from the 42/43/4400s Nothing, the 2100s sound better, and have better A/C, other than that same bus. Its like saying you like Sierra Mist but hate sprite, makes no sense. So once again a BRT bus is a BRT bus, made with plastic so again what's the difference between a NABI BRT and a New Flyer BRT nothing but a plastic version of their regular products.

Tristan was saying that in the case of the NABI-60 BRT, it's the same length of a standard 60 footer artic.  In the case of the LFAs they're two feet longer than the standard, but you get absolutely no added functionality (benefit) in those extra two feet.  So basically with an LFA the footprint is increased by two feet and the only thing to show for it is a more curved front end.  So, if you're increasing the length of the bus, one would expect to see added interior room and/or seating.  Plus the LFA cost more than the standard LF/LFR.  This is why we see the LFA as a waste and/or not worth the extra cost.  Also at least with NABI they don't force you to have a larger (than standard length) bus to get the BRT styling.

In regards to your statement about the '97/'98 and '00 Orion V, you have it a bit wrong.  We're not at all crazy about the 42-4400, but we tolerate them a bit more than the 21/2200s.  So if a 2100 and a 4300 showed up we'd pass up the 2100, but the 4300 wouldn't exactly be a treat.   

[Annex4421]

Ok see that's what gets me it's the same bus no difference. If you hate one you might as well hate them all. Not saying you guys opinions don't matter but I just don't get it, The 2100s sound just like the others (98' Orion V, Orion VI) but have their own basic sound to each of them, so you would pass up a cool 2100 for a hot 4300 even if you had astma?


Ok this is how I see it you said two extra feet you'd expect extra added feet correct, but a DE41LFR is no different from a DE44LFR, as for a DE42LFA there is no difference between both of them, its the same friggin bus, this is how I feel WMATA got LFA's MTA Maryland got 41LFR's has it ever occured anybody that maybe WMATA likes being different, alot of people talk about WMATA but depend on the agency everyday, ok I get the money thing its a reccesion and WMATA has alot of budget cuts, but tell me this why is it that when WMATA does something alot heat goes towards this T/A but other T/A's have LFA's but not one word has been said about those. No offense but I call that WMATA hating like I said if you don't like it don't ride it other wise deal with it nobody said WMATA is gonna get what's best for you, or me, or anyone WMATA gets what's best for them just like any other T/A nobody likes a copycat. Once again no offense to anybody.

[LandoverDivision]

Not to start up the debate again, but how is the 60-BRT, which is the same length as a standard 60' bus, a "waste", being "too big and too heavy", when the DE42LFA has 2 feet of extra plastic with no extra capacity is the best bus WMATA ever bought??  I'm just curious about how your opinions work.

How does YOUR opinions work? And show me a post where I said the DE42LFAs are the best. You did not hear me say that one time.

[WayneNYC]

Ok see that's what gets me it's the same bus no difference. If you hate one you might as well hate them all. Not saying you guys opinions don't matter but I just don't get it, The 2100s sound just like the others (98' Orion V, Orion VI) but have their own basic sound to each of them, so you would pass up a cool 2100 for a hot 4300 even if you had astma?


Ok this is how I see it you said two extra feet you'd expect extra added feet correct, but a DE41LFR is no different from a DE44LFR, as for a DE42LFA there is no difference between both of them, its the same friggin bus, this is how I feel WMATA got LFA's MTA Maryland got 41LFR's has it ever occured anybody that maybe WMATA likes being different, alot of people talk about WMATA but depend on the agency everyday, ok I get the money thing its a reccesion and WMATA has alot of budget cuts, but tell me this why is it that when WMATA does something alot heat goes towards this T/A but other T/A's have LFA's but not one word has been said about those. No offense but I call that WMATA hating like I said if you don't like it don't ride it other wise deal with it nobody said WMATA is gonna get what's best for you, or me, or anyone WMATA gets what's best for them just like any other T/A nobody likes a copycat. Once again no offense to anybody.

Sir - I know a few us have similar feelings about WMATA's buses, especially the Orion Vs.  That said, I'll speak for myself and explain one mo gain.  First - I was never a big fan of the Orion V, but I don't hate them.  In the case of WMATA's, I absolutely despised the '92 9600 series after they were repowered.  As far as the '97/'98 3900, 4200-4400 series, I was OK with this group as I still am.  The '00 2100-2200s just didn't do it for me and I still avoid them.  To answer your question about a hot 4300 vs. a cool 2100.  On a hot Summer day, I'd pass up a hot Metro-E or NFI LF (My favorites in the fleet) for any other WMATA bus with working A/C including a 2100.  All that means is that I prefer to ride the more comfortable bus for the conditions at that time. 

I do feel you take criticism and/or perceived criticism of WMATA personally for some reason.  But guess what???  You name any major transit agency in the country: SEPTA, CTA, LAMTA, MBTA, MTA (NYC & Maryland) and you can bet there's some shortcomings and people, both transit fans and average riders expressing their frustrations.

Believe it or not, I actually don't dislike WMATA, but I do understand the frustrations expressed by many.  I also like my hometown system, NYCTA.  It's a great system in many, many ways, but trust me.... We have our share of problems.  WMATA is not at all exempt.  It's my belief that with major agencies, many of these types of problems, inefficiencies, etc. are inherent.

In my opinion two extra feet on a bus is a significant issue when it has no added function.  One, it makes an already large vehicle larger.  That mean there's that much extra to manuver through tight streets, heavy traffic etc.  Think it's insignificant???  Watch a 42LFA on the G2 turning from 35th Street onto O Street in Georgetown.  It's tight for a 40-footer and I've seen plenty of 42LFA's have to do a reverse move to complete this turn.  Yet, for this type of trouble there's (again) no functional benefit for this added mass.  Well... I guess there is a benefit.  You guys get to see a different type of bus. 

Also - Again, I'm speaking for myself here.  If I see something with WMATA (or any agency), I will absolutely speak on it and continue to use WMATA when necessary.  If you take it as an insult (or hating)... Well, what can I say... It is what it is.

As much as I enjoy being a transit fan, I also recognize their function and responsibility is to provide mass transit for public.  In that public, a very, very small percentage of those people are going to be transit fans.

[Tristan]

Not to start up the debate again, but how is the 60-BRT, which is the same length as a standard 60' bus, a "waste", being "too big and too heavy", when the DE42LFA has 2 feet of extra plastic with no extra capacity is the best bus WMATA ever bought??  I'm just curious about how your opinions work.

How does YOUR opinions work? And show me a post where I said the DE42LFAs are the best. You did not hear me say that one time.

Uh...if I claim that you said the DE42LFAs are the best buses ever....that has nothing to do with "my" opinion.  I was being hyperbolic in saying that, but it's no secret that you are a big fan of the LFAs, which you admitted yourself.  And that's no problem and there's no criticism on that...I was just wondering why you say that the DE42/62LFAs are so great but the NABIs suck.  The reasons you gave ("too big and heavy?") are the very same reasons many people here criticize the LFA purchase, but their claims are substantiated...how is the 60-BRT "too big" when it is a 60-foot bus, just like any other 60-foot bus?

@Annex: There are subtle (sometimes more significant) sound differences between the 21/2200s and the 42/4300s, and it's not A/C-related.  Before rehab, the 2100s had overactive radiator fans (overheating engines?), which caused them to howl/blow/roar constantly.  The 42/4300s had their moments but they weren't so constant.  I will say that rehab seems to have helped, but I have to admit that I don't get within 5 miles of the 2100s all too often anymore (and my opinion on them has softened).  A long time ago, I posted two sound clips either here or on BTCo...if I can dig them up (I don't have too many 2100 recordings for the reason I stated above), I can give you a side-by-side comparison.  Most people who heard them understood what I was talking about.

[LandoverDivision]

Uh...if I claim that you said the DE42LFAs are the best buses ever....that has nothing to do with "my" opinion.  I was being hyperbolic in saying that, but it's no secret that you are a big fan of the LFAs, which you admitted yourself.  And that's no problem and there's no criticism on that...I was just wondering why you say that the DE42/62LFAs are so great but the NABIs suck.  The reasons you gave ("too big and heavy?") are the very same reasons many people here criticize the LFA purchase, but their claims are substantiated...how is the 60-BRT "too big" when it is a 60-foot bus, just like any other 60-foot bus?

Just like the 42LFA is basically a 40 foot bus. The NABI 60-BRT is actually wider (on the inside) than a 62LFA. The 60-BRTs are stil the largest buses WMATA has. Just like you guys hate the LFAs and love the 60-BRTs. I'm just wondering why that is and that's why I asked how does your opinions work. I know you guys talk about "wasted space" but it's nothing but a 40 foot bus. Very smooth riding bus too.

@Wayne: Aren't they trained to manuever these buses well? Landover bus drivers have been able to manuever these buses perfectly. Anyways, we know T/As have thier share of problems, but here's what Annex is saying: You guys seem to get on WMATA like thier the ONLY one with problems. Ride-On, DASH, FFX, The Bus etc. has their problems too. Let's talk about thier downs for once.

Again, I'd be the last one to get on WMATA about something. Things happen so what? I'm a regular rider and they get me where I need to go. Maybe not on-time all the time but I depend on them everytime even if the bus/train is late.

I absolutly despise the so called "transit buses" The Bus has but I'd be the last one to talk about them. They are trustworthy. At time we have to depend on The Bus to get where we need to go. Here's what I say: if you ride Metrobus on a daily, don't talk about them and down them, respect what they do and respect what they buy.

[Tritransit Area]

Here's what I say: if you ride Metrobus on a daily, don't talk about them and down them, respect what they do and respect what they buy.

Eh?  If you don't criticize your local transit system, what's the point of being a transit fan?!

You guys seem to get on WMATA like thier the ONLY one with problems. Ride-On, DASH, FFX, The Bus etc. has their problems too. Let's talk about thier downs for once.

I could've sworn we've beaten the horse about all of the problems these other systems have as well (ESPECIALLY The Bus).  Things have been rather WMATA-centric on this board lately, though, which is why you don't hear much about them.

For an update on this topic, I was wondering if artics ran on the U8 on the weekends.  I don't think I'll be able to make it down there again for a weekday service day soon, but it would be nice to ride/photograph these buses again!

[C40LF_2464]

The NABI Artics dont run on weekends. Thats all i know.