WMATA Had these?

[Tritransit Area]

Like Wes, I thought the RTSs were cool.  I rode them a lot on the "J2."  They were delivered originally with non-opening windows because GM told Metro that the bus AC systems were fool-proof and Metro swallowed the story hook, line and sinker.  Unfortunately, since they were mechanical systems they did break down (and always at the most inopportune times - such as 90 degree days in July).  The stories about these rolling saunas were legendary. 
In addition to the mechanical problems, there was a construction problem caused by the fuel line for the separate motor than ran the AC system.  The AC fuel line sipped fuel from the main fuel tank, however it was not long enough to reach the bottom of the tank, so as the fuel level dropped the AC fuel line was left "high and dry" and thus no AC for the passengers.
Metro spent a fortune retrofitting the RTSs with opening windows and longer fuel lines.
Personally, although I really liked them, they were really slow and if the AC was functioning and the bus was climbing a hill - you could walk faster than the bus (lol).   

The problems you described with the RTSs were commonplace with that particular model (RTS II-03...the slantback).  It's interesting to know the exact flaws with the RTS airconditioning design, though.

In regards to the slowness...were the RTSs just really heavy or were 6v92TA engines just not that strong back then?

[Tritransit Area]

The Story of Metro?  Is that a book or is it Metro at 25 or ??

The story of Metro was a book published before Metro at 25.  I think it was published in the early 90s.  It's a nice read with plenty of pics, and it even features the Ride-On bus of the times, the TMC T-30 Citycruiser (wow, how the time has flown).  I'm not sure where to purchase it, but I found it in my local library (in Pennsylvania).

[WayneNYC]

Like Wes, I thought the RTSs were cool.  I rode them a lot on the "J2."  They were delivered originally with non-opening windows because GM told Metro that the bus AC systems were fool-proof and Metro swallowed the story hook, line and sinker.  Unfortunately, since they were mechanical systems they did break down (and always at the most inopportune times - such as 90 degree days in July).  The stories about these rolling saunas were legendary. 
In addition to the mechanical problems, there was a construction problem caused by the fuel line for the separate motor than ran the AC system.  The AC fuel line sipped fuel from the main fuel tank, however it was not long enough to reach the bottom of the tank, so as the fuel level dropped the AC fuel line was left "high and dry" and thus no AC for the passengers.
Metro spent a fortune retrofitting the RTSs with opening windows and longer fuel lines.
Personally, although I really liked them, they were really slow and if the AC was functioning and the bus was climbing a hill - you could walk faster than the bus (lol).   

The problems you described with the RTSs were commonplace with that particular model (RTS II-03...the slantback).  It's interesting to know the exact flaws with the RTS airconditioning design, though.

In regards to the slowness...were the RTSs just really heavy or were 6v92TA engines just not that strong back then?

I don't know this for sure, but I believe that all RTS 01 & 03 series were available with either the DD 6V-71N or DD 8V-71N engine.  Like SEPTA, I suspect WMATA selected the 6V-71N engine for their RTSs and then repowered them later with the DD 6V-92TA engine. 

When the later model (04 series squared back) came along, I think the engine choices were either DD 6V-71N or DD 6V-92TA.  Most agencies purchasing the 04 series seemed to select the 6V-92TA, but some did get the 6V-92TA.  NYCTA was one of those who got the 6V-71N in their '81 04 series RTS.  Actually out of the 837-bus order 50 of them had the 6V-92TA engine (thankfully 20 of them were assigned to my home garage, Kingsbridge).  NYCTA would get an RTS order each year until 1987 (then they skipped a couple of years) and all except the '83 group were purchased with the DD 6V-92TA engine.

[Antozilla]

Then we have these.  Credit to the photographer

[Antozilla]

and this

[orionvii2680]

I remeber thoes gillig's on the W4 one day...and the driver would always say W4 when he opened the door.

[Sand Box John]

For those that might be interested the Downtowner mini busses had Chrysler big block gasoline engines in them.

[Tristan]

Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs?  That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left.  ADA took that away!

I still kick myself today because I used to go to church in Deep SE with my grandmother *every Sunday* -- she went to a little church off of Alabama & Good Hope, and I would see the Gilligs going INTO the shopping center all the time, but could never get one because I was too young to understand what I was looking at.  I think I made up for it between Alexandria and BWI Airport though :-)

The other great thing about the MANs was that the engine was in the center and the bellows were sealed about as tightly as a prostit...um nevermind, suffice it to say they weren't very airtight at all and clouds of exhaust would flow straight from the exhaust pipe and into the joint, hotboxing the entire bus.  Oh, and which window do you want to open to ventilate it?  They were all different colors!

[Annex4421]

Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs?  That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left.  ADA took that away!

I still kick myself today because I used to go to church in Deep SE with my grandmother *every Sunday* -- she went to a little church off of Alabama & Good Hope, and I would see the Gilligs going INTO the shopping center all the time, but could never get one because I was too young to understand what I was looking at.  I think I made up for it between Alexandria and BWI Airport though :-)

The other great thing about the MANs was that the engine was in the center and the bellows were sealed about as tightly as a prostit...um nevermind, suffice it to say they weren't very airtight at all and clouds of exhaust would flow straight from the exhaust pipe and into the joint, hotboxing the entire bus.  Oh, and which window do you want to open to ventilate it?  They were all different colors!

Tristan trust me as much as I loved the Phantoms you might not have enjoyed them they had mostly side seats and yellow strip like stop requested buttons that got smashed in all the time, other than that good buses so might have like them IDK.

[aznboy4305]

I love the MANs, they were the outcasts of buses back in the day, sorta like NJT's Volvos. The one cool thing I remember about them is the steering rear axle and that SMELL. Its not just the exhaust fumes from the mid-mounted engine, but also the musky smell of that interior. And they would always struggle up and down Viers Mill Road as well.

[Tritransit Area]

Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs?  That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left.  ADA took that away!

I remember that handrail!  I thought it was the coolest thing ever.  It's kinda like the Kawasaki LRVs that we have up here in Philly with the blinker doors, only with more room since there's only a rail separating you and Shaniqua rather than a solid pillar.

I used to ride them on the 70 sometimes (othertimes we got the wonderful Metro Bs), but I don't remember all the fun details like exhaust and steering rear wheels.

[Perry]

It sure made for boarding and alighting easier.  I hated taking them on the Q2 because that huge hill on Veirs Mill Road would kill them, but on the J2 they were fun to ride on the curvy E-W Hwy segment. 

Between the vinyl seats and the exhaust fumes, you could do some serious trippin' on there.

[C40LF_2464]

Im missed out on all that. Im sure i rode one when i was a youngster because me and my mom rode the X2 all the time. In fact my mother told me the first bus route i rode was the X2 and back in the 90's id bet it was a MAN bus. I remember riding some but i never paid it any more. If only i could afford money to make a time machine.

[orionvii2680]

Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs?  That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left.  ADA took that away!

I still kick myself today because I used to go to church in Deep SE with my grandmother *every Sunday* -- she went to a little church off of Alabama & Good Hope, and I would see the Gilligs going INTO the shopping center all the time, but could never get one because I was too young to understand what I was looking at.  I think I made up for it between Alexandria and BWI Airport though :-)

The other great thing about the MANs was that the engine was in the center and the bellows were sealed about as tightly as a prostit...um nevermind, suffice it to say they weren't very airtight at all and clouds of exhaust would flow straight from the exhaust pipe and into the joint, hotboxing the entire bus.  Oh, and which window do you want to open to ventilate it?  They were all different colors!

I also remember that handrail. I always remembers either exiting passengers leaving the bus on the lef and entering passengers on the right.Or passengers with transfers entering on the left and passengers paying entering on the right.

[novabusorionfan]

That picture of the WMATA 1992 Orion V reminds me of NYCT 1993 Orion V and the pictures of them when they were new and/or few years old when another person took pictures of them.
That picture must be a taken around 1990's I'm guessing.

The Orions, with the 6Vs were actually pretty fast and 9652, with it's DD50 was even faster.  It was a shame they switched out the 6Vs to DD50s, that's when they started to suck, couldn't get a hill worth a damned.

Well maybe WMATA should have chosed the ZF Transmission instead of Voith Transmission when they were repowering the 1992 Orion V. The ZF Transmission has excellent performance in climbing up Hills from what i heard and can go faster especially with DDS50.