The Clever Device System, how tough is it to program routes?

[OrionFlyer]

I just found out how the routes are programmed into the Clever Device system. With all the routes WMATA has how hard was it to get the routes programmed, especially the Virginia routes?

Is every route programmed into the Clever Devices?

[Tristan]

Sometimes the newer routes or route changes are not ready to run on the very first day of service, but eventually they all get in.

Every single bus stop has a GPS coordinate and an announcement file and display text have to be matched to each stop.  Every route, regardless of how minor a diversion it does, is programmed separately into the system, so even with the VA routes (which aren't worse than the rest of the system, I dunno why the distinction was even made), each of them are in the system.

I don't think anyone here has programmed a Clever system, though, to say exactly "how hard" it was to do so.

[btconet]

I don't think anyone here has programmed a Clever system, though, to say exactly "how hard" it was to do so.

T'aint fun!!!  They are not the most receptive to cutting and pasting duplicate segments (meaning they like you to drive the line as many times as there are patterns) and their "Tool" (their term) does not readily accept late revisions or corrections.  So if you find that you forgot to include that new "had-to-have" stop at the Senior Center, you have to call them to insert the stop at their HQ and then re-download the stop listing for use on their tool.

Then comes other frustrating things.

Occasionally, the tool will fail to record the stop reading or the GPS will crap out.  This means driving BACK to the prior stop, re-registering, and then trying to record the segment again.  Not too much of a headache on a grid of streets, but much harder on a more remote road with only spur streets on it (the GPS gets confused with backing up or U-turns).

And on some Express runs, you'll find the need to record an unannounced "dummy stop" to keep the Tool from simply shutting itself off.

How a large agency like WMATA maintains such an extensive database is beyond me.

[79MetroExtraMD]

I don't think anyone here has programmed a Clever system, though, to say exactly "how hard" it was to do so.

T'aint fun!!!  They are not the most receptive to cutting and pasting duplicate segments (meaning they like you to drive the line as many times as there are patterns) and their "Tool" (their term) does not readily accept late revisions or corrections.  So if you find that you forgot to include that new "had-to-have" stop at the Senior Center, you have to call them to insert the stop at their HQ and then re-download the stop listing for use on their tool.

Then comes other frustrating things.

Occasionally, the tool will fail to record the stop reading or the GPS will crap out.  This means driving BACK to the prior stop, re-registering, and then trying to record the segment again.  Not too much of a headache on a grid of streets, but much harder on a more remote road with only spur streets on it (the GPS gets confused with backing up or U-turns).

And on some Express runs, you'll find the need to record an unannounced "dummy stop" to keep the Tool from simply shutting itself off.

How a large agency like WMATA maintains such an extensive database is beyond me.

I swear there are still some old pre-GBBI runs still programmed in the system. I've seen a few of the old 5 7 Sunday service pre 2001 even on a Flyer. MTA shoulda made the different runs include the origin to make things simpler. Sometimes you'll get 5 or 6 runs thatll say CEDONIA and each one of them has a different start point.

As for a large database, Chicago's must be hard to do as well. They have about 2/3 of the routes that WMATA has.

[Perry]

It's hard with any sized system.  We have it too and there are times I'll hear incorrect announcements but they have to wait until a new build is sent out so they can all be inserted in. Then you have the vehicles that do have the changes, some that don't and add in other bells and whistles.

Seriously,  bring back roll signs and have the operators announce streets.  Transit should not be so technological.  All it does is put money in the hands of nerds who don't know transit and makes it hard for everyone else to use it.

[Tristan]

Oops...forgot about you B'more people...sorry!

I don't think anyone here has programmed a Clever system, though, to say exactly "how hard" it was to do so.

T'aint fun!!!  They are not the most receptive to cutting and pasting duplicate segments (meaning they like you to drive the line as many times as there are patterns) and their "Tool" (their term) does not readily accept late revisions or corrections.  So if you find that you forgot to include that new "had-to-have" stop at the Senior Center, you have to call them to insert the stop at their HQ and then re-download the stop listing for use on their tool.

Then comes other frustrating things.

Occasionally, the tool will fail to record the stop reading or the GPS will crap out.  This means driving BACK to the prior stop, re-registering, and then trying to record the segment again.  Not too much of a headache on a grid of streets, but much harder on a more remote road with only spur streets on it (the GPS gets confused with backing up or U-turns).

And on some Express runs, you'll find the need to record an unannounced "dummy stop" to keep the Tool from simply shutting itself off.

How a large agency like WMATA maintains such an extensive database is beyond me.

[btconet]

Seriously, bring back roll signs and have the operators announce streets.  Transit should not be so technological.  All it does is put money in the hands of nerds who don't know transit and makes it hard for everyone else to use it.

POST OF THE DAY!!!!

All too often it seems that too much budget is spent buying and maintaining these elaborate systems.  Every $ spent on these enhancements would do a lot more for people providing trips than locked up in a motherboard that only one person can maintain. 

Back in '75, a whole bus cost $50000.  Today, you're probably paying more than that for just the LED Sign, GPS, IVN, APCs, and Farebox!

[79MetroExtraMD]

Seriously, bring back roll signs and have the operators announce streets.  Transit should not be so technological.  All it does is put money in the hands of nerds who don't know transit and makes it hard for everyone else to use it.

POST OF THE DAY!!!!

All too often it seems that too much budget is spent buying and maintaining these elaborate systems.  Every $ spent on these enhancements would do a lot more for people providing trips than locked up in a motherboard that only one person can maintain. 

Back in '75, a whole bus cost $50000.  Today, you're probably paying more than that for just the LED Sign, GPS, IVN, APCs, and Farebox!

I agree. I remember hearing stories about the integration between the Orbital system and the farebox in DC. Good in theory. Hell of a time in practice. Sept 4 2007. The radio system went out meaning no one could log into the farebox. Over 200k loss on that day. A couple of months ago, alot of the Clever Devices systems didn't work after the Air Show shuttles. Even doing a manual set of the signs wouldn't work. Alot of NOT IN SERVICE signs as well as wacky route numbers. 292 (C2) 383 (83) 552 (Z8).

[Perry]

Tell me about it.  Everytime we get to a new service change there are always issues because headsigns weren't uploaded properly or you have ones that don't work, get stuck on some other reading or just become hard to figure out.  Then you get the fareboxes with the constant jamming, passes that get stuck, operators that can't get logged in.

In Ottawa they still use non-registering fareboxes and they run an awesome system.  Actually most of Candada has the US beat in transit operations. 

[79MetroExtraMD]

Tell me about it.  Everytime we get to a new service change there are always issues because headsigns weren't uploaded properly or you have ones that don't work, get stuck on some other reading or just become hard to figure out.  Then you get the fareboxes with the constant jamming, passes that get stuck, operators that can't get logged in.

Those GFI boxes are hell. I know alot of operators that have a hard time with them. A few times I've seen them just crash and the only way to reset it is to shut off the bus, cut the battery power, reset it, and power back up. Shouldn't there be an override switch built in to avoid this process.

As for the headsigns, I wish I could program them. It went from shorthand to teeny text. Obviously, someone sacrificed legibility for simplicity. It's hard to read TWINBROOK STATION and FRIENDSHIPHEIGHTS from a couple blocks away.

[Perry]

I used to program the signs at PRTC.  I used to go back and forth with whether to do multi line or multi screen.  It just depended on how much I needed to put on there.  I changed one of the OmniLink signs because the way I had it was too small, so for the next service change I made it huge.  Not usre if it's still like that or not.  I'm sure it is as they don't really make that many changes.  I also put in some destinations that they may or may never use, but at the time it was a possibility. 

Buried in them I have the names of operators who participated in the VA State Roadeo when we hosted it a few years ago.

The Odyssey's are extremely slow accepting bills.  It really cuts into the run time and it stinks to have to build that time into the schedule.

[OrionFlyer]

I swear there are still some old pre-GBBI runs still programmed in the system. I've seen a few of the old 5 7 Sunday service pre 2001 even on a Flyer. MTA shoulda made the different runs include the origin to make things simpler. Sometimes you'll get 5 or 6 runs thatll say CEDONIA and each one of them has a different start point.

As for a large database, Chicago's must be hard to do as well. They have about 2/3 of the routes that WMATA has.

I bet some of the Clever Devices still have the old 46, 47, 48, and 49 school routes.

[79MetroExtraMD]

I used to program the signs at PRTC.  I used to go back and forth with whether to do multi line or multi screen.  It just depended on how much I needed to put on there.  I changed one of the OmniLink signs because the way I had it was too small, so for the next service change I made it huge.  Not usre if it's still like that or not.  I'm sure it is as they don't really make that many changes.  I also put in some destinations that they may or may never use, but at the time it was a possibility. 

Buried in them I have the names of operators who participated in the VA State Roadeo when we hosted it a few years ago.

The Odyssey's are extremely slow accepting bills.  It really cuts into the run time and it stinks to have to build that time into the schedule.

I'd love to program signs for some TA one day. I want to program in FINISHED SERVICE to the buses at Shuttle.

As for the Odyssey's, that's a problem in Baltimore too. The cash folks get on first and the people with passes either have to go around to try to swipe or just get on. I think once transfers are eliminated at Metro, it should pan out to decrease the dwell times if all of those people paying with cash get Smartrip or flash pass. As for Baltimore, it'll be quite a while until the MD Transit Pass debuts and fare media can be loaded onto the card. The only problem is availibility of the TVMs to do the process since theyre the only place that can do the transactions (at least for the time being). The places that sell passes would have to set up a POS system to have this capability.

[79MetroExtraMD]

I bet some of the Clever Devices still have the old 46, 47, 48, and 49 school routes.

I doubt it. If I find a friendly operator, I might be able to ask him/her to try, but I think after those routes were absorbed into trippers on local lines, those routes were programmed into the regular routes list.

[Tristan]

To tell you the truth, our Odysseys are...actually...not too bad anymore.  The bill validators have an orange sticker saying "THIS UNIT HAS BEEN MODIFIED BY GFI"...seems like our early problems have been solved.