WMATA Bus Launch Woes: Are they common?

[Scrabbleship]

Between the adrift saga of the 60BRT's arriving just as their route gets torn up with no set place to put them, the engine governing saga with the 42LFA's, and the phantom status of the 37LFA's and 62LFA's, I'm starting to wonder if WMATA can properly execute a launch of new buses.

I know, I'm biased in part because I'm relatively new to the area and most of the other TA's I've dealt with haven't built new buses up with such fanfare. Even seeing the other local TA's, their buses just seem too arrive and hit the road with little problems. But WMATA's woes have me wondering if it is WMATA thing that has led to all of this. Sure, DDOT, the flood-swollen Red River, and some dumb New Flyer tech who disobeyed the specs can be blamed, but how much of this is WMATA's doing?

For the vets in the area: Was there enough drama when the assorted Flxes, Orions, New Flyers, and the artics came in? Please tell me there was...

[79MetroExtraMD]

You gotta remember. There's still operator training, communcations and other technological muck to clear, as well as road testing before they'll come out. Every year, the more technical a bus becomes with a bunch of computerized everything and things gotta be in order. Plus, New Flyer has alot of orders that have to be built so it'll take a little while. Rail stuff takes even longer.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

You can't compare buses to trains...

Nothing with these orders seems to be exceptionally abnormal to me aside from the governor issue on Montgomery's buses (and in theory, it should be an issue on all the buses since they will begin playing WMATA Division Roulette before too long, except perhaps the Western fleet which doesn't seem to play very often). 

[mrpete]

In part, here's the issue: Every commercial vehicle be it bus, semi-tractor, airliner, rail vehicle, is a custom built piece, speced out by the purchaser. The Prime vendor (NFI, NABI etc.) is, to use current terminology, a "systems integrator". That is, they provide the box that all the components and systems from many suppliers must work within. Although those parts and components are standard "off the shelf" items, they may not necessarily work well with each other, based on how they are "integrated" into the the system (bus).

So.... while the "finished" product may test out fine at the factory, once it gets into the intended operating environment, reality prevails and... ooops....Oh S---!! It happens every day. Unfortunately, the operators and riders become unwilling/unwitting test subjects/drivers. Keep in mind that many of the vehicles now arriving at WMATA & Maryland MTA were acquired speced out for other TA's whose operating environments may be different from local conditions. They were bought that way based on cost and delivery time. You get what you pay for.....usually, but not always. Caveat Emptor!!

[Antozilla]

Except we didn't have these problems with the Orion Vs or even the VIIs

[Tristan]

The Orion VIs came out like marchers in a parade but the Orion VIIs were slogged with issues early on, some of which have not yet been resolved to this day.  They just weren't the same issues.

[WES]

Mostly with new deliveries there was no problems.  All of the Flxes that came in had no problems, neither did the first batch of Orion Vs.  The second batch of Orion Vs came late.........because Orion didn't know how to deliver a bus on time.  The Orion VIs and Vs that came in 2000 had minor problems.  The Orion VIs had minor problems with the rear doors, but that problem was fixed.  The first C40LFs had minor problems with the lugnuts used to keep the wheels on, again minor, fixed pretty quickly.  Neo artics came in with no problem.................

And then there was the Orion VIIs, I don't need to go into it more.

The only real buses that WMATA had problems with, other than the Orion VIIs were their 40 foot Neos.  Those buses were plagued with problems from their delivery till when they got stored for good.  The main problem was with the frames, then I believe the axles or was it the other way around, can't remember.  I think the axles were the first problem, but they got benched permanently because of the frames.

[Tristan]

The 60-foot Neos did make that awful screeching in the bellows for the first month though...and I wouldnt call the 60BRT situation a problem, its just a route they suggested putting them on.  Not like they painted X2 logos on them or anything.

My apostrophe key is weird today.

[Tritransit Area]

Didn't WMATA also have problems with the rear axles on the Orion VIs and the New Flyer C40LFs?  I remember reading something like that quite a while ago.  Plus, I think WMATA's C40LF order delayed the first batch of SEPTA's D40LFs.

[Tristan]

That's what WES mentioned with the bolt issues...bolts were popping off left and right.

[ir0cq09]

What was wrong with Wmata's Orion VII??   Now I know that Ride On and wmata Have same powertrain in some of there units(Cummings/Voith) why are Wmata units so slow vs. Ride On's which are somewhat Faster?

[79MetroExtraMD]

What was wrong with Wmata's Orion VII??   Now I know that Ride On and wmata Have same powertrain in some of there units(Cummings/Voith) why are Wmata units so slow vs. Ride On's which are somewhat Faster?

AFAIK, both Metro and Ride On have theirs governed. Ride Ons VIIs are limited to 55. As for Metro, its up in the air. There are like spotty ones that have good take off as opposed to some that are just plain slow at times (JDs).

[Tristan]

What was wrong with Wmata's Orion VII??   Now I know that Ride On and wmata Have same powertrain in some of there units(Cummings/Voith) why are Wmata units so slow vs. Ride On's which are somewhat Faster?

WMATA's are 5 feet longer as well.

[RailBus63]

One important factor that undoubtedly impacted the Orion VII deliveries was that the bus was still a new model at that point - Orion had been building production O7's for less than two years when the first WMATA buses began to arrive. I'm old enough to remember all the problems GMC and Grumman-Flxible had in the early days of the RTS and 870, respectively, so this is hardly a new phenomenon. As others have noted, today's buses are even more complicated with the various powerplant options and other systems, so it's unrealistic to expect that new buses can be prepped for service and sent out immediately.