Are the 60-BRTs at Landover Division...

[Tristan]

Isn't possible that some of the new New Flyer BRTs that go to Landover will be suburbans with luggage racks like the 6200s? Likewise for Montgomery and West Ox?

Yes it's possible, but WMATA doesn't need more suburbans, so it's not probable.  They never cease to annoy aggravate amaze me so who knows what's coming for sure?

[LandoverDivision]

My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place.  Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.

Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans.  I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them. 

Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway.  With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans.  Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.

Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG  and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.

All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.

I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...

[WMATAGMOAGH]

My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place.  Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.

Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans.  I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them. 

Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway.  With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans.  Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.

Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG  and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.

All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.

I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...

Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity.  Why is that "needed" in your opinion?

[LandoverDivision]

My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place.  Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.

Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans.  I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them. 

Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway.  With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans.  Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.

Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG  and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.

All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.

I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...

Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity.  Why is that "needed" in your opinion?

Comfort.

[WayneNYC]

My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place.  Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.

Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans.  I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them. 

Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway.  With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans.  Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.

Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG  and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.

All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.

I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...

Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity.  Why is that "needed" in your opinion?

Comfort.

Comfortable, yes.  Is it the most practical?  Absolutely not.   You have to think about what is the best decision for the majority.  Just think about one of those buses doing a Z8 or better yet, a rush hour C2/C4 trip.  You're not going to get as many people in as you would on a bus with a standard transit interior.

[LandoverDivision]

All of those people have to get back to the airport.  It's not like everyone went back Wednesday.  They'll probably move them out by next week.

There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.

It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times.  And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans. 

Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it.  Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.

I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place.  Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.

Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans.  I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them. 

Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway.  With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans.  Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.

Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG  and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.

All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.

I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...

Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity.  Why is that "needed" in your opinion?

Comfort.

Cushioning like those on the 4300s or 2100s or vandal resistant seating in a transit configuration seems comfortable enoguh to me.  Most bus trips aren't so long, so it is rare that one begins to get uncomfortable before the trip is almost over. 

[LandoverDivision]

My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place.  Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.

Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans.  I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them. 

Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway.  With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans.  Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.

Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG  and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.

All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.

I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...

Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity.  Why is that "needed" in your opinion?

Comfort.

Cushioning like those on the 4300s or 2100s or vandal resistant seating in a transit configuration seems comfortable enoguh to me.  Most bus trips aren't so long, so it is rare that one begins to get uncomfortable before the trip is almost over. 

Do you guys always have to ruin the moment? 

[WMATAGMOAGH]

All of those people have to get back to the airport.  It's not like everyone went back Wednesday.  They'll probably move them out by next week.

There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.

It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times.  And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans. 

Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it.  Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.

I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.

Haven't we had the discussion about artics versus standard buses already?  If the F4 were to run artics, you would probably see LONGER headways.  Something tells me that isn't what you really want.

[LandoverDivision]

All of those people have to get back to the airport.  It's not like everyone went back Wednesday.  They'll probably move them out by next week.

There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.

It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times.  And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans. 

Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it.  Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.

I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.

Haven't we had the discussion about artics versus standard buses already?  If the F4 were to run artics, you would probably see LONGER headways.  Something tells me that isn't what you really want.

You would also see more seats. Try being on an F4. Especially with Flx's. Even with 40ft buses, the F4 can be slow due to overcrowding. I don't want that either but we have to deal with it.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Speaking of overcrowding, the 30s gets quite a load coming from Georgetown up to Tenleytown and each 31 32 and 36 that passes by has a full load on each bus and makes almost stop after stop. I don't know what the combined headways are for the 30s on Saturday on the Wisconsin core but there's quite a bulk of folks (mostly AU kids) heading uptown.

[WES]

Here is my theory on when artics should be used.  In the F4's case, again it is just a case of increased service.  This route should run at least every 10 minutes, every 5 minutes from PG Plaza to New Carrollton.  During non rush hour, the F4 should run every 20 minutes, along with later service in the evenings till at least 12am. 

Artics should been put on routes that have a frequency of 10 minutes or less, definitely around 5 minutes.  When the F4 reaches in that range then artics should be used on that route, but not right now.  The only other problem is that when artics are used, the frequency get decreased, and I don't get the reason.  If said route runs every 5 minutes, have a capacity of 60 people on each run, then when the changeover to artics happen, it should stay at every 5 minutes.  Your average artic holds around 60 people sitting, and when that gets the 60 people that was on the 40fter, it still has space to hold more passengers just in case more people want to ride. 

Most PG routes don't need artics, just an increase in service.  Even if WMATA got more artics, the priorities would be the Q2, Ss, some Zs, some 50 runs and the Y8(wait, don't they have artics on it alreeeee.........nevermind).

[LandoverDivision]

Here is my theory on when artics should be used.  In the F4's case, again it is just a case of increased service.  This route should run at least every 10 minutes, every 5 minutes from PG Plaza to New Carrollton.  During non rush hour, the F4 should run every 20 minutes, along with later service in the evenings till at least 12am. 

Artics should been put on routes that have a frequency of 10 minutes or less, definitely around 5 minutes.  When the F4 reaches in that range then artics should be used on that route, but not right now.  The only other problem is that when artics are used, the frequency get decreased, and I don't get the reason.  If said route runs every 5 minutes, have a capacity of 60 people on each run, then when the changeover to artics happen, it should stay at every 5 minutes.  Your average artic holds around 60 people sitting, and when that gets the 60 people that was on the artic, it still has space to hold more passengers just in case more people want to ride. 

Most PG routes don't need artics, just an increase in service.  Even if WMATA got more artics, the priorities would be the Q2, Ss, some Zs, some 50 runs and the Y8(wait, don't they have artics on it alreeeee.........nevermind).

The only time you'll see some kind of 5 to 10 minute service in the county is with Shuttle-UM Route 104. Anything else is 15 minutes or more. We need a damn miracle here in PG.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Here is my theory on when artics should be used.  In the F4's case, again it is just a case of increased service.  This route should run at least every 10 minutes, every 5 minutes from PG Plaza to New Carrollton.  During non rush hour, the F4 should run every 20 minutes, along with later service in the evenings till at least 12am. 

Artics should been put on routes that have a frequency of 10 minutes or less, definitely around 5 minutes.  When the F4 reaches in that range then artics should be used on that route, but not right now.  The only other problem is that when artics are used, the frequency get decreased, and I don't get the reason.  If said route runs every 5 minutes, have a capacity of 60 people on each run, then when the changeover to artics happen, it should stay at every 5 minutes.  Your average artic holds around 60 people sitting, and when that gets the 60 people that was on the 40fter, it still has space to hold more passengers just in case more people want to ride. 

Most PG routes don't need artics, just an increase in service.  Even if WMATA got more artics, the priorities would be the Q2, Ss, some Zs, some 50 runs and the Y8(wait, don't they have artics on it alreeeee.........nevermind).

Most TAs use artics as a way to cut costs, not to expand capacity.  For example, in New York, an all articulated route only has 3 buses for every 4 standard buses that would operate on that route if that route were assigned standard buses instead.  Sometimes however, making a route all articulated and lengthening headways on that route can result in service increases somewhere else in the system, as the standard buses get reassigned, but I can't think of any TA that actively does this.

All of those people have to get back to the airport.  It's not like everyone went back Wednesday.  They'll probably move them out by next week.

There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.

It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times.  And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans. 

Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it.  Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.

I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.

Haven't we had the discussion about artics versus standard buses already?  If the F4 were to run artics, you would probably see LONGER headways.  Something tells me that isn't what you really want.

You would also see more seats. Try being on an F4. Especially with Flx's. Even with 40ft buses, the F4 can be slow due to overcrowding. I don't want that either but we have to deal with it.

Again, capacity wouldn't be changed significantly.  And your fare only entitles you to a ride, not to a seat.  Artics would not be an improvement on the F4 and could be better used elsewhere.

Speaking of overcrowding, the 30s gets quite a load coming from Georgetown up to Tenleytown and each 31 32 and 36 that passes by has a full load on each bus and makes almost stop after stop. I don't know what the combined headways are for the 30s on Saturday on the Wisconsin core but there's quite a bulk of folks (mostly AU kids) heading uptown.

This has been the case for years and years.  The combined headways on the even 30s are probably about 10 minutes on Saturday afternoons according to the schedule, but the schedule doesn't always conform to reality.  Limited stop service on Wisconsin Avenue 7 days a week would be helpful.  This, however, is not a place where artics would be feasible, since no depot that can handle artics is within reasonable deadhead distance of the routes in question.

[Tristan]

I disagree on this artic situation, from a here-and-now standpoint.  Assuming that there is no increase in operating funds, put tics out there if people are getting left behind.  Grants for Capital are easier to come by via FTA, plus Jack B. doesn't mind spending some one-time money on bling bling, but recurring Operating expenditures mean pulling teeth.  If we can keep him in his ways, maybe we can get some capacity if not more service.