Favorite Worst Metro Buses

[LandoverDivision]

Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow.

The D40LFRs surely can. I've ridden them plenty of times where they reach up to 57. Ride Ons C40LFs have gotten around there. I took a couple on the 55, 70, and the 100. Even some of their Orion 7s can.

You sure about the D40LFRs? Hmm. I haven't been on a single D40LFR that went that fast or maybe it's just me.

Lack of evidence isnt evidence in itself.

Do you want more evidence? I live in PG County. I thought that would be enough evidence for you. PG is possessed with these things. Living in PG is enough evidence for me.

[aznboy4305]

What does that have to do with how fast a bus can go?

My car is capable of doing 130+, but thats not something you'll see me doing every day.

[LandoverDivision]

What does that have to do with how fast a bus can go?

My car is capable of doing 130+, but thats not something you'll see me doing every day.

You said lack of evidence of me riding the D40LFRs right? I've ridden them a million times and not one of them went fast. What are you talking about?

[aznboy4305]

No, I saying just because you haven't been on one going fast doesn't they're not ABLE to go fast.

[Tritransit Area]

Aside from being slow, they ride rough, you can't see out the front, stadium seating oh and that wom wom woom sound they make

Now that's the sound I love. The brake release sound. That sound is the reason I love Orion VIIs. 

That's just about the only thing I like about those buses more than others.  Also, I enjoy the fact that they are so tall, including the doors.

[Tritransit Area]

Is it so rare to see DC Area buses go that fast?  I've heard rumors of some of them going up to 70+.

In the SEPTA region, buses outside of the NABIs max out (with governer) around 60/65. 

[WayneNYC]

Is it so rare to see DC Area buses go that fast?  I've heard rumors of some of them going up to 70+.

If you're in DC and some of the other areas with lots of stop and go traffic, they won't get up to speed much.  However, there plenty of routes that have nice stretches of open road and/or highway to reach high speeds.  I've paced many WMATA buses in my car hovering around 70 MPH. 

Personally, I think 65-70 MPH on a transit bus is enough.  I don't see where they need to go much faster.  Most WMATA buses will reach those speeds.  Sometimes speed is a factor in a bus being one of my favorites, but not always.  Perfect example is WMATA's Orion VI and Neoplan AN-460.  The DD 6V-92TA equipped Metro-Bs were high on my list too, but most know that they weren't too fast in their last days.  Then on the other hand, I'm with most of the guys who can't stand the Orion V 2100/2200, but they're not excatly slow buses.

[NewFlyer9736BCT]

Favorite 4 (in no order):
-Orion V (21-2200s and 42-4400s) (YES I SAID 21-2200s!)
-Orion VII
-New Flyer (all types)
-Flxible Metro

Most hated 3 (in no order):
-Orion VI
-Orion V (9600s)
-Orion II

What I wish they had/kept (stealing MetroLiner's idea):
-All the retired Metro-B's
-New Flyer D40LF's with DD50 engines (like BCT's New Flyers...WHICH ARE FREAKIN GONE)
-Gillig Advantages (like Ride-On's newest ones, and the 30' ones as well) - preferrably hybrids
-MAN artics (I just wanted to see them)
-Orion VII diesel (same engines as some of BCT's older Gilligs (Cummins ISM or ISL with unknown transmission))

Let me add some pros and cons I just thought about:

Pros:

Orion V (2100s, 4300s, 3900s) - fast, I like the engine sound, comfy seats, great legroom on most seats. Also, I honestly don't see ANY difference between the 2100s and 4300s, except a bit of the seating arrangement but that's it.

Flxible Metro D - Great legroom, love the engine sound (all of Metro Ds) and there's nothing I love more in the world than the whistling sound that some make while accelerating.

Flxible Metro-E - Legroom again, comfy seats on the upper 4000s / 4100s.

New Flyer (all except the CNGs) - Fast

Orion VII - I love that new bus feel and the engine sound and sometimes whistle while accelerating, not like the Flx Metro Ds though.

Cons:

New Flyer (all of them) - Bad legroom, the CNGs are really slow. The C40LFs are really bland and boring (95% chance a Bladensburg bus will be a C40LF...boring...)

Orion VI - Bad legroom, I hate sitting on the side seats, and the only good front-facing seat is the 2nd-to-last row. Other than that, I actually do like the Orion VIs.

Orion II - Like the Orion VI, bad legroom, but for the WHOLE BUS VEHICLE. They're nice looking, but I hate riding them.

Orion VII - Bad Legroom and the stop request sign is RIDICULOUSLY high in the lower part (not the 2700s since they have the overhead racks). Who cares if people can see a stop request cord from the outisde...I couldn't care less. But no, they decide to hide it on the window divider thing, which is really high.

[Tristan]

I'm perplexed and confused as to how you say that the New Flyer CNGs are slow and boring but the Orion VIIs are somehow exciting.  I guess the difference truly is in what you see every day, cuz I'd take a well-built, FAST (I dunno where you got this slow thing from, maybe it's the routes you're riding but I've never ONCE been on a C40LF with any "mechanical" speed issues, in fact they get kinda lurchy because they tend to want to take off too fast) C40LF over a struggling sputtering Orion VII any day. 

This isn't just hearsay - I've been on Orion VIIs MULTIPLE TIMES that were PULLED OUT OF SERVICE - you heard it, EXCHANGED - because they moved TOO SLOW.  The only other ridiculously slow experiences I had until that point where on 8700s (needs no explanation) and 9730 on the F4 on that field trip a few years back...y'all 'member, the one that rolled backwards down that hill every time the driver hit the gas.  Oh, and an Ikarus that made all these big bad topped out noises like it was flying on the Y but barely broke 40.

Also, just because you don't see a difference between the 2100s and the 4300s doesn't mean there isn't any.  Do you think the several members here who mentioned a difference are just making it up?

And...you have to give the Orion II some credit for what it is trying to be.  I too used to think that they're pretty silly looking until I came to the stark realization that, for buses under 30 feet, it was either IIs or Champion/ElDorado cutaways.  It's a shame that a low ridership route automatically means a piece of junk, nowadays.

[NewFlyer9736BCT]

Yeah it's true I don't ride the Orion VIIs every day. I do admit though that they are slow. Plus, I have rode the New Flyer CNGs a lot, and from what I remember, they are slow. If they were put on the J7/J9 or some other express route, then I might see the true speed these things have.

And I was just giving my personal opinion - I personally don't see any difference between the 2100s and 4300s, other than the fact that the 2100s have great A/C.

And yeah, I guess it's true about the Orion IIs, at least they're not Helldorados and it's better for the surrounding neighbors rather than hearing a large bus go by all the time or a Helldorado.

[79MetroExtraMD]

I like the Orion VII, built quality and speed doesnt define everything. If thats the case, then Gillig makes some bomb ass buses.

They have GREAT ride, leans and floats nice, sounds great, and they're one of my favorite buses to work on.  Yes CERTAIN orders lack a lot of power, and the built quality is sub-standard. They're not perfect buses, but they aren't shitty or monotonous as New Flyers.

And 55-59 is NOT fast for a bus, outside of Ride On and New York MTA, most transit buses are governed to anywhere between 65-70mph, which is STILL not fast for a bus. There are VERY few places where you'll find ungoverned transit buses. I've been on plenty of ungoverned Vanhools that were pushing 80+ and thats with the needle resting on the maximum point, and it wasnt struggling at all. You'll be amazing at what a bus can do if money, insurance, and safety wasn't a factor.

Speaking of fast, a buddy of mine in LA said he pushed a D40HF to 79 on the freeway. And these are L10s were talking about.

Quite frankly to me, I do have my favorites and dislikes, but the one thing I want in a bus is to take me from point A to point B safely. I wouldn't care if it a 2100, 4300, 9600, 5200, etc, as long as I can get to my destination safely, that's all that matters. As for buses being slow, sometimes it not just the speed, but the capacity of the line as well as traffic. A tic on the Q2 during rush hour heading to Silver Spring felt like it took all day, but at least I had something to do riding down. I don't mind riding the long lines (except the Y) just as long as I have my iPod and my paper.

[NewFlyer9736BCT]

I like the Orion VII, built quality and speed doesnt define everything. If thats the case, then Gillig makes some bomb ass buses.

They have GREAT ride, leans and floats nice, sounds great, and they're one of my favorite buses to work on.  Yes CERTAIN orders lack a lot of power, and the built quality is sub-standard. They're not perfect buses, but they aren't shitty or monotonous as New Flyers.

And 55-59 is NOT fast for a bus, outside of Ride On and New York MTA, most transit buses are governed to anywhere between 65-70mph, which is STILL not fast for a bus. There are VERY few places where you'll find ungoverned transit buses. I've been on plenty of ungoverned Vanhools that were pushing 80+ and thats with the needle resting on the maximum point, and it wasnt struggling at all. You'll be amazing at what a bus can do if money, insurance, and safety wasn't a factor.

Speaking of fast, a buddy of mine in LA said he pushed a D40HF to 79 on the freeway. And these are L10s were talking about.

Quite frankly to me, I do have my favorites and dislikes, but the one thing I want in a bus is to take me from point A to point B safely. I wouldn't care if it a 2100, 4300, 9600, 5200, etc, as long as I can get to my destination safely, that's all that matters. As for buses being slow, sometimes it not just the speed, but the capacity of the line as well as traffic. A tic on the Q2 during rush hour heading to Silver Spring felt like it took all day, but at least I had something to do riding down. I don't mind riding the long lines (except the Y) just as long as I have my iPod and my paper.

Well at least you have something to do. My iPod doesn't work anymore and I got nothing else. That's why a fast ride matters for me. Although I did mention the New Flyers have bad legroom, it's my preferred choice on the Q2 to go home because they are fast and I want to go home ASAP after a long day out. IMO I wouldn't mind a 4300s on the Q2 as well.

[aznboy4305]

I give interior configuration and powertrain next to no consideration at all when I'm rating a bus. Just because a bus can do 0-60 in 10 seconds and have first class seating doesn't say much about the bus itself, thats all customer spec'd.
Take the Orion VII, you might hate them just because you've only rode WMATA's units. They're slow beyond any practical applications, they don't get to open up, they suck, etc, etc. Then look at Ride On's units, they can move, they bounce, they lean, they sound better, they're FUN to ride, all sorts of crazy shit. I do not judge a model based on components that the bus manufacturer had NOTHING to do with (Orion didn't decide what powertrain to put in the VIIs, how to tune it, what seats to put in it, how they were gonna be arranged, what type of passenger traffic its going to handle, and so on)

Also I judge buses based on different perspectives. I love and hate certain buses as a transit fan, certain buses as a traffic checker, certain buses as a commuter, and definitely  certain buses if I were an operator.

And to add to existing disagreements...

There IS a difference between 4200/4300s and 2100/2200s

WMATA's C40LFs are FAST (they're not as fast as they once were, but still fast)

WMATA's C40LFRs are SLOW

Orion IIs are the king of their class.

[Tristan]

Good points Ray, although I'm not sure WMATA specified velcro as a building material.

[Tritransit Area]

Indeed.  I do remember back when Ride-On's DD50G Orion VIIs were somewhat new (I think it was my 2nd time riding them) I saw someone nearly rip the wall off of the bus just by pulling the pull cord...