Rapid Bus Lanes?

[mrpete]

Anyone see this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/11/AR2010101105841.html

[WMAveteran]

 Yes, I saw it.  Dr. Gridlock is asking the POST'S readers to send in their opinions about a rapid bus system compared to light rail.  This is a long-standing feud maintained by people who know nothing about either system but unfortunately, because there is no rapid bus system closer to the DC area than Pittsburgh, rapid bus does not have the support it deserves.  I have attended meetings where participants oppose all buses because they see them operating like standard Metro, Ride On, Dart, etc., systems where the buses stop almost every block and move at a snail's pace.  They don't equate "rapid transit" with the word bus.  I would like to treat them to a tour of Pittsburgh's bus ways and the Orange Line in Los Angeles to experience the possiblilities of rapid bus systems.  We need a balanced transportation system and rapid bus service is part of the picture.  Montgomery County MD Councilman Marc Elrich actually proposed a series of rapid bus routes for Montgomery County.

[Tritransit Area]

Hmm, I think a busway network similar to what they have in Pittsburgh could work.  One thing that leads to the success of the busway network is the massive amount of express buses that use them, especially from operators from suburbs near and far from the city.  The DC Area has this thanks to PRTC and MTA.

Of course, doing a "Rapid Bus Service" on the cheap to be cheap (i.e. glorified bus lanes) is no good for anyone.  Sadly, the "Extra" WMATA buses don't even have those lanes.

[WayneNYC]

Hmm, I think a busway network similar to what they have in Pittsburgh could work.  One thing that leads to the success of the busway network is the massive amount of express buses that use them, especially from operators from suburbs near and far from the city. 

I agree.  My wife had considered using the J9 from Lakeforest to Bethesda as it used the I-270 HOV lane.  The problem is that the bus then has to fight with the heavy traffic between I-270 and Medical Center (and Bethesda).   While PAT and OCTranspo-type busways would be great, I think buses at the least need to have dedicated bus lanes (and enforce it) during peak hours.

[Scrabbleship]

Hmm, I think a busway network similar to what they have in Pittsburgh could work.  One thing that leads to the success of the busway network is the massive amount of express buses that use them, especially from operators from suburbs near and far from the city. 

I agree.  My wife had considered using the J9 from Lakeforest to Bethesda as it used the I-270 HOV lane.  The problem is that the bus then has to fight with the heavy traffic between I-270 and Medical Center (and Bethesda).   While PAT and OCTranspo-type busways would be great, I think buses at the least need to have dedicated bus lanes (and enforce it) during peak hours.

This sounds similar to my experience on the J9 as well as Ride On's 70. The one time I took the 70, it took longer to get from Bethesda to Medical Center via Old Georgetown (and circling NIH) than it did to get from Medical Center to Milestone. The J9 at least takes the more direct route via 355 but falls victim to similar problems though I found its problem spot is more getting off 270.

The J5 on the inner loop has a similar problem, the entry point from 355 to the inner loop enters the left lane, the left lane ends, and it has to go all the way to the right to get off at Georgia often weaving through tons of traffic.

[mrpete]

Wayne:


Let's see how NYCMTA's lanes on 1st/2nd Ave.'s work out for the M15 Select Bus service.


http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/next/routes.shtml


http://mta.info/nyct/sbs/sbs_intermed.htm


http://mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/whatis.htm

[WayneNYC]

Wayne:


Let's see how NYCMTA's lanes on 1st/2nd Ave.'s work out for the M15 Select Bus service.


http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/next/routes.shtml


http://mta.info/nyct/sbs/sbs_intermed.htm


http://mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/whatis.htm

I haven't observed the 1st and 2nd Ave bus lanes since the M15 SBS service started, but my guess is that they'll likely do well.  The M15SBS is NYCTA's second BRT route.  Their first route (The Bx12 SBS) has been doing very well and the bus lanes run along Fordham Road which is one of the most congested thoroughfares in the Bronx.  They're plans to add cameras to the buses to snap photos of violators in the bus lanes. 

[Perry]

I had seen an article about the M15 and the first day of service was a disaster.  Some said that it actually took longer on the SBS than the original route.  Most of it wasn't really due to the lanes themselves as much as people trying to get used to the new payment system.

It's really hard to get people to get out of their cars and onto express buses. We're having that issue here and even with the highway that has HOV lanes under construction, people are still choosing to sit in their cars.  Over time, the ridership will grow and it has grown, just not at the pace I was hoping.  The down economy taking jobs away isn't helping either. 

Unless you actually have a lane that is completely restricted from other traffic, the bus will never be faster, but as we're trying to sell it, if it's at least somewhat comparable, you'll have a chance.  It just depends if people are willing to give up the freedoms of their car to take transit even if it does save them money but not as much in time. 

[WayneNYC]

I had seen an article about the M15 and the first day of service was a disaster.  Some said that it actually took longer on the SBS than the original route.  Most of it wasn't really due to the lanes themselves as much as people trying to get used to the new payment system.

It's really hard to get people to get out of their cars and onto express buses. We're having that issue here and even with the highway that has HOV lanes under construction, people are still choosing to sit in their cars.  Over time, the ridership will grow and it has grown, just not at the pace I was hoping.  The down economy taking jobs away isn't helping either. 

Unless you actually have a lane that is completely restricted from other traffic, the bus will never be faster, but as we're trying to sell it, if it's at least somewhat comparable, you'll have a chance.  It just depends if people are willing to give up the freedoms of their car to take transit even if it does save them money but not as much in time. 

Right - First and Second Ave already had the bus lanes for many years, but they were never really enforced.  Now, I suspect that will change.  The problem was indeed the people learning the new system (and complaining to the bus operators).  When the Bx12 SBS started, there weren't many complaints at all.  What's the difference between the two routes???  The Bx12  operates through working class and low income areas and much of the M15 serves the well-to-do Upper East Side and downtown areas .

If I had to ride a route like the NYCTA's SBS routes (and even many of their express routes)... I'd take them over driving in a heartbeat, as you definitely save money and in many cases you'd save time as well.  Looking at my current situation...... I'll be staying in my car for now.   

[Perry]

I think I read that for the lanes on the M15, they were going to do photo enforcement after a short grace period.  I wish that could be done on the freeways in the HOV lanes! 

The bus unfortunately will always carry that stigma of being for the poor.  It's such bs, but it's hard to convince people otherwise.  For some reason rail has this attractiveness to it, but it still carries the same crowd that rides the bus.  Oh well....

[WMATAGMOAGH]

I think I read that for the lanes on the M15, they were going to do photo enforcement after a short grace period.  I wish that could be done on the freeways in the HOV lanes! 

The bus unfortunately will always carry that stigma of being for the poor.  It's such bs, but it's hard to convince people otherwise.  For some reason rail has this attractiveness to it, but it still carries the same crowd that rides the bus.  Oh well....

Only in North America.  I find it remarkable that in many of the other places I've traveled/lived around the world, public transit doesn't carry the same stigma it does in North America.  Here in Israel, nearly everyone I know takes the bus, no one has a car (though admittedly my social circle is mostly Anglos who are students only here for a year or two), and bus driver is a highly respected job (though part of that can probably be attributed to the Intifada when buses were frequent suicide bombing targets).  In Curitiba in Brazil, an area with only 3 million residents in its metro area, public transit (which has benefited from very progressive planning policies dating back to the 1970s) gets about 2 million trips a day.  These places also admittedly have much more compact cities, so you don't get the sort of sprawl and long commutes that the US has, and the public buses are far more appealing to everyone, regardless of class.  It is going to take a long time to change that perception in the US and to make buses as attractive as they are in places such as Rome, Curitiba, or Jerusalem.  But I do think BRT is a good first step.

[WayneNYC]

Yes, they are planning to equip the buses with cameras for bus lane enforcement on all SBS routes.  I get what you guys are saying about the stigma of riding buses, but I'm not sure that applies to all major US cities.  IMO, it's definitely not that case in NYC.  In fact, I'd say it's often the opposite in NYC.  Many well-to-do people living within NYC limits, but outside of Manhattan seem to prefer express buses and go to great lenghts to avoid the subway.  I also question if this is the case in Chicago too.  However, I think it's clear that Metrrail is seen as cool in DC, while Metrobus is shunned by many.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Yes, they are planning to equip the buses with cameras for bus lane enforcement on all SBS routes.  I get what you guys are saying about the stigma of riding buses, but I'm not sure that applies to all major US cities.  IMO, it's definitely not that case in NYC.  In fact, I'd say it's often the opposite in NYC.  Many well-to-do people living within NYC limits, but outside of Manhattan seem to prefer express buses and go to great lenghts to avoid the subway.  I also question if this is the case in Chicago too.  However, I think it's clear that Metrrail is seen as cool in DC, while Metrobus is shunned by many.

I remember seeing somewhere that alot of young people prefer to take mass transit over driving mainly due to the costs. Circulator is still a good viable option for people too. I wouldn't go so far as to say the stigma applies to the whole region as there are many commuters who ride the bus in VA to get to the Pentagon, Ballston, and Crystal City. I think the reason rail is such a preferred option is speed. People want to get from point A to point B quicker and want the fastest option. Of course, sometimes its not always the case. I do agree making Metrobus more attractive could work, but then is improving the service.

On this side of the beltway, public transportation in Baltimore (in fact Maryland in general) isn't seen as viable to many because of the poor service, limited operating hours, frequencies, overall coverage and concerns of safety in recent years. I see alot of people pass up MTA buses to take the free Circulator bus in Downtown (which is ironically slow compared to MTA). In recent years, MTA has tried to speed up bus travel times by introducing new quickbus routes but traffic in downtown Baltimore is so horrendous especially with construction going on that nothing is quick and the lack of an adequate rail system puts another choke in the arterials. I don't see Baltimore really getting much more involved in improving public transportation until the next decade.