WMATA orders NOVABus LFS, LFSA, and LFX?

[novabusorionfan]

I was thinking WMATA cloud order buses from NOVABus and they cloud order the NOVABus LFS.

They cloud order NOVABus LFSA and LFX.

If they order NOVABus LFSA or LFX, it should replace all 2002 Neoplan AN460. 

[Annex4421]

The Neoplans still yrs left in them, heck they haven't gotten rehabbed yet but can you provide a pic.

[Annex4421]

I can take these but the back kills me. Plus they sound good too.

[Scrabbleship]

I can take these but the back kills me. Plus they sound good too.

Even more than the old style that had the longitudinal-mounted engine the Orion VI's have? I'd like to see what it looks like without the rear AC in contrast.
(am I the first one to notice that the new LFS rear looks like Volvo is trying to reincarnate the old Volvo B10M rear?)

The LFS has a dear place in my heart as I rode them just about everyday for 4.5 years and I think they'd be a good addition to the DC area transit scene. Whether WMATA is best for them, however, is debatable. I think they might work well at Circulator to be honest; lots more room but still curvy and different enough.

[Annex4421]

I can take these but the back kills me. Plus they sound good too.

Even more than the old style that had the longitudinal-mounted engine the Orion VI's have? I'd like to see what it looks like without the rear AC in contrast.
(am I the first one to notice that the new LFS rear looks like Volvo is trying to reincarnate the old Volvo B10M rear?)

The LFS has a dear place in my heart as I rode them just about everyday for 4.5 years and I think they'd be a good addition to the DC area transit scene. Whether WMATA is best for them, however, is debatable. I think they might work well at Circulator to be honest; lots more room but still curvy and different enough.

In a way I can see the DC Circulator with those.

[Tritransit Area]

The Neoplans still yrs left in them, heck they haven't gotten rehabbed yet but can you provide a pic.

  What did Neoplan do to you?  They are wonderful (most of the time)!

Neoplans have been serving Philadelphia rather happily since 1982, and are among my favorites - especially the late Neoplan AN440s, my favorite group of buses!

[Tritransit Area]

The Neoplans still yrs left in them, heck they haven't gotten rehabbed yet but can you provide a pic.

  What did Neoplan do to you?  They are wonderful (most of the time)!

Neoplans have been serving Philadelphia rather happily since 1982, and are among my favorites - especially the late Neoplan AN440s, my favorite group of buses!

Neoplans were nothing but crappy buses i ever been on, I learn for years not to trust them because they make horrible squeal noise and have other problems. I have my reasons why I hate them. If you think Neoplan is the best,that's your opinion because Neoplan is NOT the best buses for a FACT and was never was, they are even having problems with MBTA, LACMTA and other some TAs. There are other better buses then Neoplans. I'm gald Neoplan USA went out of business, I'm even glad it even didn't touch Canada that's another reason what make Canadian transit  Agencies are better.

Wow, that's quite some Neo hate, although I agree they weren't the best buses in the world.  Of course, many bad things have been said about Novabus LFSs as well...there's a reason why they weren't so big in the United States.  Every manufacturers have their good and bad batches of buses.  Of course, when you overcustomize vehicles like NJT and MBTA (seriously...a low floor CNG dual mode articulated trackless trolley?), they tend to have more issues than vehicles off the shelf (the typical Gillig). 

I think Neoplan's quality went down in their latter years, particularly with their venture into low floor buses, but, we can't forget some of the greatest Neoplans of all time...Neoplans that have lasted 19 years in service!

[Tritransit Area]

LACMTA Neoplan AN440 has problems, there are falling part and need to be retired, they are currently retiring the 1995-1996 AN440 CNG and next they will retire the 1997s-1999 models as well so by 2012 All LACMTA Neoplans will be gone meaning that will be history.

I'd think so - they are starting to get a bit old at 14.  Hopefully I'll get to ride them before they go though.

As for SEPTA's Neoplan AN440, yes they lasted 19 years,but they are all gone and none were saved for to be preserved since SEPTA didn't like their Neoplan AN440 after the issues they had in 1980's.

WHAT?!  I ASSURE you that's not the reason why those Neoplans were not saved (and the Volvo was scrapped).  People liked those Neoplans, to the point where in the eve of their demise, some drivers chose the Neoplan AN440s as often as possible over the NABIs and the low floors.  I believe the decision to not preserve them has more to do with a certain senior manager (who's an avid bus fan) that no longer works for the company.  Without the busfan motivation (and spare finances) to preserve vehicles, they didn't care anymore, and the Neoplans were either:

1) Donated to New Orleans RTA to help cover the loss of their fleet thanks to hurricane Katrina.  I hear they were among the better buses running down there (along with, I'm sure, DASH's Orion Is).

2) Sold to Rabbit Transit of York, who used them for a few years on the hospital shuttle.

3) Scrapped .

Besides, if SEPTA detested the Neoplans so much, they wouldn't have kept going back for seven consecutive years from 1982 to 1989.  The 1996 order was won by NABI since they were the low bidder and could deliver 400 (junky) buses in 2 years. 

SEPTA also took on the order of 155 Neoplan artics, ALL of which are still in service today.  The main problem with them is that they are horrendously underpowered with the DD50 engine, but they are holding up pretty well otherwise.  I doubt they will make it to 19, since SEPTA is making sure to retire buses at the age of 12 nowadays to keep the average fleet age down.

NOVABus has improved with the 3rd Generation version of the LFS: http://i81.servimg.com/u/f81/12/91/98/39/dscf2844.jpg and Many USA Transit Agencies will buy from NOVABus in the future, they could be number 1.

Hopefully SEPTA buys NOVABus instead of NFI.

We shall see how it works.  Alas, a lot of agencies are loyal to New Flyer and Gillig, with some that are fans of NABIs.  More agencies are going back for the same things, rather than taking a serious chance with a new manufacturer, particularly with the LFS model (in the US, Novabus was best used for RTSs, rather than the LFS). 

One major problem with the LFS is that it's only offered in 40 and 60 foot versions.  Therefore, smaller agencies may not be able to buy this model.  The competitors all offer 30ft and 35ft versions of their buses.  Also, there is no hybrid articulated variant, which is what agencies are looking for.  Baltimore and SEPTA have both decided to purchase nothing but hybrids from now on.  I'm sure other agencies are starting to have similar mentalities as hybrid technology is more common place.

Novabus will surely have to work to get low bids on some of those RFPs out there in order to make a significant niche in the US marketplace.  The company also should offer more variations of its models.  Otherwise, Novabus will continue to be overshadowed by the big 3 (New Flyer, Gillig, NABI).

That being said, I do hope that SEPTA gets Novabuses.  There's a chance that they would IF Novabus gets off its bum and offers a reliable hybrid artic ASAP. It would be interesting to see WMATA try them, although they may not fit in the whole new "curves" look. We could use a change of place from the New Flyer syndrome!

[Scrabbleship]

1: Didn't Muni have a bunch of problems with their D60HF's and mothball them in reserve for several years even before the Neo artics came in?

2: The MBTA's over-customized orders (dual-mode artics, CNG artics, ETB's with left-hand doors) were probably the last straw for Neoplan in the US. In fact, I would think that almost all of their low floors had issues of some kind or another save for Pittsburgh and I know one regular here knows of the ones at his agency as "NeoTrash" given their incessant problems.

3: Why is it that the later AN460's seem to have placid lives in contrast. The DD60 trio (Bee Line 500's/WMATA 5300's/PAT 3100's) all are in great shape last I rode them and SEPTA's DD50-powered models aren't bad either.

4: I think that Nova will offer an expanded line in due time and I would think they would want to work out any remaining kinks with the regular LFS hybrid before making a hybrid artic (and since hybrids are an agency-paid extra in Quebec, not many have gone for it which has limited production). If the LFS-A's work out with the MTA in New York, I would not be shocked to see MTA try to see a hybrid LFS-A demo made.

5: Is it me, or have I noticed some parallels between the AN460LF's and the old school Volvo artics. Only 3 agencies bought both, both seem like an enigma, both had low production numbers...

[Annex4421]

novabusorionfan with all due respect PLEASE EASE DOWN WITH THE NOVA BUSES WMATA AINT GETTING THEM NO TIME SOON ITS ALL NEW FLYER (Im not shouting just getting tired of seeing these posts) Everybody is getting New Flyers because they make good buses, yes everybody seems to be getting possesed with them but that proves (Excuse my french) they're just that DAMN good.

As for the Neo-Plans I don't know what you've been through with those buses but don't assume ALL neoplans are bad I don't know about others but WMATA's seem fine to me and they sound beast (not that your opinion is bad because in a way I agree with you).

Ok I agree that NJT NABI's look funny to us but don't down them they choose to get those buses and they probably perform better than any NOVA LFS or New Flyer etc. Just randomly speaking. So what if WMATA or any other T/A gets New Flyers or NABI's its their choice so deal with it. Again no disrespect towards you, I think you're cool, but you're just too obsessive with NOVA buses.