The Jury's In: The DE42/62LFAs-Love Em' or Hate Em'?

[WayneNYC]

Let's say if I was to side with the people who think they are a waste. What can we do now? They're already here and WMATA has already wasted the money so there wasn't anything we could do before and there isn't anything we could do about it now so we're going to have to deal with it one way or another. They're gonna be here for the long run.

Obviously the buses are here to stay.  Those of us who believe it's a waste knows it's a done deal (I'm not sure why you think we don't know this).  However, we believe that during planning.... Yes, there was some planning, (They didn't just wake up one day, call New Flyer and say send us a bunch of LFAs) they should've considered a less expensive alternative.  That alternative would've been DE41LF/R and DE60LF/R which would've cost less, have the same functionality as the LFA, with less weight and two foot shorter footprint.  But, the guy in charge likes buses with curves, so we have all of these premium priced NFI LFAs and NABI BRTs that offer zero extra capability over the "plain" models except that they give you guys a differently styled bus to ride.  Yet, that extra money per bus, for curvy designed could've been put to better use, like additional buses, possibly more service etc.

Basicly the styles of WMATA's buses change with every other bus order so after the next LFA order then WMATA may order XDE40s of go back to the LF/LFR style or choose something else.

Why would they go back to LF/LFRs?  They purchased the NABI 60-BRT and LFAs because Catoe wanted "buses with curves".  I didn't make this up.  It's a direct quote.  It's not because he wants a diverse fleet.  So, unless he leaves or for some reason changes his mind... You'll probably be seeing more of them in future orders

[Tristan]

I don't understand why this specific discussion gets so heated, unlike a discussion where we say cutaways are junk, or the 9600s were slow at takeoff, or the Metro-Bs are generally good buses -- in all instances, yes our opinion basically doesn't mean anything because we're not "in authority" to make equipment decisions, and yes we say all this after the vehicles have arrived (or been altered), and yes, we realize that talking about it doesn't mean they're going to reverse course and do what we say, but ... we can still have that discussion...until it comes down to LFAs.

Landover, it's not about taking sides -- you're welcome to have your opinion, and you're allowed to have an opinion that might not "fix" anything.  And if you're gonna like the LFAs, like them because you like them, not just because we're stuck with them.

[Annex4421]

Wayne I'm sorry I meant to say go back to the LF/LFRs I know WMATA never repeats buses of the same style, it was just a suggestion.

[aznboy4305]

I know WMATA never repeats buses of the same style, it was just a suggestion.

What? Sure they do...

9600s>>4300s>>2100s.

[Annex4421]

Yes but look at the gap in between each of them.

[Tristan]

There's no real gap between the 4300s and 2100s - one bus order and then the next bus order.

What I think aznboy is getting at though is that you shouldn't state such things as though they are some sort of official WMATA policy just because of a few coincidences.  Lately, they've been around the block as far as bus orders go, but by no means is there not a precedent for year after year of the same thing (Flxible Metros for damn near 10 years straight anyone?).

[aznboy4305]

Look at the C40LFs, DE40LFs, DE40LFRs, D40LFRs, and DE42LFAs. They're all essentially the same thing.

[79MetroExtraMD]

There's no real gap between the 4300s and 2100s - one bus order and then the next bus order.

What I think aznboy is getting at though is that you shouldn't state such things as though they are some sort of official WMATA policy just because of a few coincidences.  Lately, they've been around the block as far as bus orders go, but by no means is there not a precedent for year after year of the same thing (Flxible Metros for damn near 10 years straight anyone?).

Just like in NYC where the RTS almost dominated the entire fleet back in the 90s. I'm surprised they didn't consider Millennium for a potential order (before NJT screwed them).

[WayneNYC]

There's no real gap between the 4300s and 2100s - one bus order and then the next bus order.

What I think aznboy is getting at though is that you shouldn't state such things as though they are some sort of official WMATA policy just because of a few coincidences.  Lately, they've been around the block as far as bus orders go, but by no means is there not a precedent for year after year of the same thing (Flxible Metros for damn near 10 years straight anyone?).

Just like in NYC where the RTS almost dominated the entire fleet back in the 90s. I'm surprised they didn't consider Millennium for a potential order (before NJT screwed them).

When Millennium came along NYCTA was already leaning more toward Orion.  Also, I doubt they would've ordered from them as the TA certainly was not going to put up the money before receiving the buses and being satisfied with them.

[Tritransit Area]

Here's an interesting thought.  Why are all of these buses New Flyers?  Isn't LACMTA a NABI town?  I wouldn't have minded seeing a whole bunch of NABI BRTs running around.

I'm wondering - weren't these buses on order before Catoe became GM?  Maybe not as LFAs, but surely as New Flyers.

Finally, why do [some of] you all assume that all we (WMATA) will be getting is New Flyers in the future?  I mean, we did just get NABI 60-BRTs, and it's not like WMATA ever had an unwavering loyalty to one manufacture (i.e., 9600s in a sea of Flx orders, Orion VIIs after an order of C40LFs and perhaps the D40LFRs, etc).

[WayneNYC]

Here's an interesting thought.  Why are all of these buses New Flyers?  Isn't LACMTA a NABI town?  I wouldn't have minded seeing a whole bunch of NABI BRTs running around.

I'm wondering - weren't these buses on order before Catoe became GM?  Maybe not as LFAs, but surely as New Flyers.

LACMTA seems to be into NABIs nowadays, but they do have some New Flyers too. 

I think WMATA may have already had an agreement with New Flyer when Catoe came along, but they weren't necessarily planning to get LFAs.  My guess is that had Catoe not come to WMATA, they probably would've purchased DE35LF, DE41LFR, DE60LFR and NABI 60-LFWs.  Just my guess.

[LandoverDivision]

2100s > 4300s. But they're the same bus one just came out two years later. Anyways I don't like the LFAs because we're stuck with them (I don't know where you got that idea from).

[Tristan]

Because in most of your responses where people said they didn't like them, you just kept saying that Metro makes the decision and there's nothing we can do about it -- not to be critical, but you didn't give too many reasons you actually like them.  Not that you have to explain yourself, but that's the conclusion you left to be made.

[LandoverDivision]

I know I don't have to but I will. I love the LFAs. They catch my eye every time. Comfortable seats, fast, they're great sounding. The "extra space" you guys are talking about, I don't really care about that extra space. They're BRT it's a style it doesn't really matter to me. I love the BRTs and I think WMATA made a good choice buying them. I don't really see what the big deal about them is. But everyone's entitles to opinions. Like I said, I love the BRT styled buses.

[Annex4421]

Personally I take it like this like the tittle says you either love em or hate em bottom line so lets just ends this stuff.