"The New Metrobus?"

[79MetroExtraMD]

Ok you guys talk about "Oh why can't WMATA increase service before they start buying fancy buses?" Didn't you guys say that WMATA isn't in charge of the service? It's up to the county, city government etc. I'm not going to say the new metrobus is perfect but it's improving somethings. It's going to take a while for things to get fixed. We can't all just assume it's going to be fixed in a snap.

More frequent service + more people = more crowding which means and even bigger problems. That's why the 30s got split to begin with. It's not Catoe's fault that some things just can't be fixed overnight you have to give it a lot more time. Not taking up for him or anything, but give him a break. He's doing all he can to try to fix what's broken.

Now for service in PG. I would recommend another T/A be bought about. The Bus is just not working and Metro shouldn't have to be "Real PG County Transit". The PG government should grant The Bus some money so they can have better service, beter buses etc.

Finally I'm sorry for my attitude towards some of you guys. I'm sorry and I got carried away but please I deserve as much respect as the rest of ya'll.

What factual evidence (real studies, reports, and the like) do you have to back your claim? I'm finding it hard to believe you think more frequent service means more crowding. You need to look at services in other cities to see that more frequent service supports the capacities and doesn't lead to more crowding. Mainly look at New York City and Toronto for example. They have ridership statistics and data in regards to it.

[WES]

I think PG county officials need to ride THE BUS, look at its routes, listen to passengers.  They might keep the same mentality when it comes to bus service, but with enough people complaining and raising hell, maybe they might change their minds.  There are SO many opportunities for THE BUS to get into.  On big opportunity is the ever growing community of Springdale.  There is a bus that goes there, but it seems to be only a loop line.  What about a route that goes from Largo Town Center Station through Springdale, to New Carrollton.  When people have to ride the F14 and then walk about 30 minutes to get home, that's not right. 

If I haven't said, when you border all of the major population areas, in the DC area,  and have the transportation system you have, how are you going to encourage population growth, business growth and "livable communities".  That phrase is so incomplete without a strong transit infrastructure.  Montgomery County is planning light rail in upper Montgomery County, the ICC mainly runs through Montgomery County and the Purple line is mainly running through Montgomery County into PG County.  Now PG has something to do with these projects, but where is PG's plan for improved transit.  It's sad when at a WMATA forum for improve transit, RIDE ON was representing itself, THE BUS was nowhere to be found and boys and girls here's the shock.............IT WAS HELD IN PG COUNTY.  One person mentioned that when they spoke and an applause broke out.  Why is it that the University of Maryland was planning to use their buses to start a circulator service when at the least it should be a cooperation between the county and the university, if not the county to provide and initiate such service.

When will the government officials in PG get their heads out of their ass and improve WMATA bus and THE BUS service in PG, when traffic gets so worse that traffic is jammed in the midday.

On frequent service, some drivers, I think don't want to turn down passengers and they keep stopping and stopping picking up more passengers making a bus more full.  Most cities have it in their signs that there is another bus coming, why can't WMATA do that.  There is one bus packed and then the next bus right behind it is practically empty.  It may sound stupid but having a route that has not-quite-limited service is an idea to try.  Take the 32 for instance, notoriously known for being late.  We take the 32, keep the route number  and seperate it into mini-limited lines.  There would be a A-stop, B stop and C stop, and mark the stops along with way with an A stop only label, a B stop only label and a C stop label.   Buses marked 32 A stop would only stop at A stops and not at any B or C stops.  Same thing for B and for C stop bus runs.  Test a route.......maybe the 32 to see if it works and if it does then apply it to other heavy, high frequency routes and increase routes that need increase as such.  Just a suggestion.

[Annex4421]

Basicly he just proved his point when he said look at the 30s. You have to be a daily rider to understand where people come from when they say "The route needs a service increase or artics or whatever". WES if you're talking about the 32 THE BUS route then yes 32A or a 32B is a good idea, but the 32 WMATA needs both increase of service and maybe 1 or 2 artics, maybe, And I don't need paperwork, or study a route, bump that talk to the actual riders who ride lines such as the 32, F4 etc people who ride these routes, including myself, I hear people say " oh this bus need to run better" or " this route needs longer buses" etc on routes such the W4, F4, P12, C22 and so fourth. So like WES says the PG county officials need to get their heads out of their (you know the word) and improve the service. 

[79MetroExtraMD]

Basicly he just proved his point when he said look at the 30s. You have to be a daily rider to understand where people come from when they say "The route needs a service increase or artics or whatever". WES if you're talking about the 32 THE BUS route then yes 32A or a 32B is a good idea, but the 32 WMATA needs both increase of service and maybe 1 or 2 artics, maybe, And I don't need paperwork, or study a route, bump that talk to the actual riders who ride lines such as the 32, F4 etc people who ride these routes, including myself, I hear people say " oh this bus need to run better" or " this route needs longer buses" etc on routes such the W4, F4, P12, C22 and so fourth. So like WES says the PG county officials need to get their heads out of their (you know the word) and improve the service. 

Artics on the 30s is very hard to do given the space constraints along Wisconsin Avenue and other parts of the 30s alongside the tight turns in Southeast. Also, at Friendship Heights, the back end of a tic would pose a hazard blocking the way for the N, E6, and the Friendship Heights Shuttle. As for increasing service, Western can only do as much with the runs they have on the 30s. If they do get help, it gets to a point where is another route going to lose service just so this route can gain service.

As for PG county, try to see if Jack Johnson really gives a damn about transit in the county. For a county like PG to have an inadequate transportation system that lacks weekend service for the county system and late night service throughout just doesn't cut it. I know MTA gives funds to the county but where the heck is it going (or who).

[WayneNYC]

As for PG county, try to see if Jack Johnson really gives a damn about transit in the county. For a county like PG to have an inadequate transportation system that lacks weekend service for the county system and late night service throughout just doesn't cut it. I know MTA gives funds to the county but where the heck is it going (or who).

I totally agree with this right here.  Another problem is that the average Joe believes that the lack of bus service in PG county is WMATA's doing (or shortcoming).  Those who are in power, like Jack and company don't care.  They don't need mass transit and won't be caught dead on a bus and the public is not holding him accountable, so he continues to get a pass. 

[Tritransit Area]

But, why was WMATAbus even created if everything falls to the municipalities to provide their own transit services, with a couple of WMATAbus routes for good measure?  As much as I love Ride On, DASH, the existance of ART and the Fairfax, (and PG's latest Gillig Phantoms - woo!) it does make one scratch his head.

It kinda reminds me of the NYers and the complaints about LI Bus.

It seems like PG County needs a Transporation Management Association .  WMATA's starting to make SEPTA look good!

[Scrabbleship]

Aren't most of the suburban TA's reason for existence to preserve service WMATA would have axed (or did axe) once Metro came in and/or to run routes WMATA didn't want to create or run. I seem to remember the former being the MO for DASH's birth and the latter as the MO for Ride On, Connector, and ART.

[LandoverDivision]

What factual evidence (real studies, reports, and the like) do you have to back your claim? I'm finding it hard to believe you think more frequent service means more crowding. You need to look at services in other cities to see that more frequent service supports the capacities and doesn't lead to more crowding. Mainly look at New York City and Toronto for example. They have ridership statistics and data in regards to it.

It's called I've been riding the bus just about everyday for...I don't know....ALL MY LIFE. A lot of people here drive for a reason. Service is awful here. let's say service does increase here. More drivers will found out about the service. So now you're going to have regular bus riders plus people who drive crowding the bus. More service, more people. I don't need statistics to prove my point because I know this from fact. It's called riding with people who actually hates service here and would prefere to drive because of bad service. And statistics aren't always right. Example, you think it's about 9 billion people in the world right? Wrong. Because babies are born every minute. It could be 20 billion people here but we don't know. Anyways, more service could cause more issues. Splits, a higher demand for express routes, limited stop routes etc. Need I say more? I think not.

[Tristan]

Maybe you could, because I for one can't figure out what you're trying to get at.  Are you saying WMATA *shouldn't* increase service because it would cause more people to ride the bus, which apparently is a bad thing?

Also, I've never heard 9 billion as a population figure for this particular decade, maybe 2050 but I thought we were closer to 7 billion.

[LandoverDivision]

More frequent service, in a way, is just not going to cut it. Artics is the way to go. The End.

There are (supposetly) over 9 billion now. But again, babies are born every minute so no one knows the exact population now.

[WayneNYC]

Example, you think it's about 9 billion people in the world right? Wrong. Because babies are born every minute. It could be 20 billion people here but we don't know. Anyways, more service could cause more issues. Splits, a higher demand for express routes, limited stop routes etc. Need I say more? I think not.

Don't forget.  While they're babies continuously being born, they're also people dying too.  Are you saying the number of births are clearly outpacing the number of deaths?

Let's say WMATA (and other transit agencies) adopt your approach and throw artics everywhere.  You state that with increased service, it'll bring more riders (which I though was at least one goal) as they learn of the service increase.  What do you envision happening if there were artics all over?  By your theory one could also expect ridership to grow since the buses will be able to accomodate more passengers.  Eventually those artics will be full.  Then what?

[LandoverDivision]

Example, you think it's about 9 billion people in the world right? Wrong. Because babies are born every minute. It could be 20 billion people here but we don't know. Anyways, more service could cause more issues. Splits, a higher demand for express routes, limited stop routes etc. Need I say more? I think not.

Don't forget.  While they're babies continuously being born, they're also people dying too.  Are you saying the number of births are clearly outpacing the number of deaths?

Let's say WMATA (and other transit agencies) adopt your approach and throw artics everywhere.  You state that with increased service, it'll bring more riders (which I though was at least one goal) as they learn of the service increase.  What do you envision happening if there were artics all over?  By your theory one could also expect ridership to grow since the buses will be able to accomodate more passengers.  Eventually those artics will be full.  Then what?

No one said throw artics all over the place. Put them on routes that could use them. More frequent service isn't going to work either so what else is there to do? People stand up for hours (at times) waiting for the bus. At least everyone is able to get a seat on artics rather than cramping on a 40 foot. Artics at times go to waste here so they could just put those (at least) on routes that need them. That will save them money.

Think about this at least. One 40 foot breaks down. Another is right behind it. Now you've got an extremely packed bus. When instead, an artic could be on it giving those who were on the bus in front and the ones who were already on the bus a seat.

Those artics might get full but at least there is less of a problem then there would be on a 40 foot. Again not saying every route needs them, but a lot of them do.

Births and deaths happen every minute. All I'm saying is noone knows the exact population but cencus show that it maybe 9 billion people in the world now.                             

[Tristan]

I don't think there's any way 3 billion people could be born in less than 10 years.  Census says a bit shy of 7 billion: http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

BUT THIS IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT! Let's talk about buses!  I've never heard anyone say adding service was a bad thing, and I've definitely never heard anyone saying that adding service doesn't increase capacity.  You're assuming that ridership is going to grow exponentially - while your theory makes sense that ridership would increase when service is added, it's not necessarily logical or reasonable to say that it's not going to help and that ridership is going to grow _so much_ that that new service isn't going to help *at all*; there's a limit to the amount of people who would ride any particular route.

[WayneNYC]

No one said throw artics all over the place. Put them on routes that could use them. More frequent service isn't going to work either so what else is there to do? People stand up for hours (at times) waiting for the bus. At least everyone is able to get a seat on artics rather than cramping on a 40 foot. Artics at times go to waste here so they could just put those (at least) on routes that need them. That will save them money.

Think about this at least. One 40 foot breaks down. Another is right behind it. Now you've got an extremely packed bus. When instead, an artic could be on it giving those who were on the bus in front and the ones who were already on the bus a seat.

Those artics might get full but at least there is less of a problem then there would be on a 40 foot. Again not saying every route needs them, but a lot of them do.

Births and deaths happen every minute. All I'm saying is noone knows the exact population but cencus show that it maybe 9 billion people in the world now.                             

You seem to have this well-researched.  By your own admission: More service won't work and artics are the way to go.  In your example of the 40-footer suffering a mechanical versus an artic... One, you're assuming that the artic is also not crowded, which is not always the case.  Two - If the route doesn't have frequent service and an artic goes down, it's very likely that that next bus will get crowded.  The way I see it is that you'd rather have longer headways for a larger bus versus more standard buses on shorter headways.  I don't see where the artics are necessarily the better way to go.  Also - if artics are the answer, it seems that you have the answer and the transit agencies have yet to figure this out.

Don't get me wrong.  I have nothing against artics, and they have their obvious advantages, but I'm not seeing where replacing standard buses with artics will necessarily solve the crowding issues.  In my opinion, it's clear that more planning has to go into such moves, which is probably one reason why transit agencies employ transit planners.

Also - What's wrong with ridership growing.  Again, that's why they have planning departments.

[Tritransit Area]

Isn't it fact that in New York, those ridiculously crowded, yet frequently operating, routes became worse with the implementation of artics?  Not only do you have the 3 artics per 4 standard bus policy, but while each bus has more room, there are less doors.  This means more dwell time as people push their way through crowds.

However, as much as I would love to deal with an artic on the F4, more service would be nice.  I can't fathom the reasoning (other than "we're broke) behind having the F4 run every 20 minutes midday, with an Orion VI or these New Flyer low floors, and the bus is ready to burst open with people!

Thank goodness I "live" right outside of DC and close enough to Montgomery County so I can walk to Ride On and take advantage of good metrobus service.  The route that runs right down the street has horrendous service as a PG route!