Ride On CNG's

ir0cq09 · October 30, 2009, 11:08:43 AM

What do you guys think Ride-On's next order of CNG buses is going to be? Personally I would like to see them order some C4OLFR with the same engine/tranny combo(ISL-G/Voith?) as wmata

Tristan · October 30, 2009, 11:41:01 AM

Well at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if they talked Gillig into CNG.

Tritransit Area · October 30, 2009, 12:08:20 PM

Yeah, who would've thought that they would get such an abundance of new Gilligs several years ago?

I'd say that if Ride On is interesting in expanding their fleet further, they'd get C40LFs with frameless windows and the ISL-G/Allison B400 powertrain. They have some tmie before they start replacing CNG buses, outside of the 35 foot Orion Vs.

I'd rather have them with ZFs, but for some reason ZFs don't do well on DC Area streets.

79MetroExtraMD · October 30, 2009, 01:15:56 PM

Quote from: Tristan on October 30, 2009, 11:41:01 AM
Well at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if they talked Gillig into CNG.

I doubt Gillig would even venture into CNG (anymore at least).

Annex4421 · October 30, 2009, 01:49:38 PM

Ride-On with C40LFRs that doesn't sound bad. But I would get a kick out it if they ordered some NABI 40 LFW Restyled CNG like ART has except 40 footers.

Tristan · October 30, 2009, 01:55:22 PM

Ride On to NABI would be a sea change...but I said the same thing when it happened at ART, then it happened again!

aznboy4305 · October 30, 2009, 09:59:47 PM

The only way I think Ride On would get more New Flyers is if they are able to find another piggyback option. From my understanding, New Flyers are incredibly difficult to acquire for smaller TAs with small orders. They seem to be a "oh we were so lucky to get slots so we just HAD to take it" type option. And the last time I heard, Ride On weren't too happy dealing with Orion. So, Ride On getting NABIs might not be TOO far out of the question...

Of course this would only apply to CNG orders, as I believe Ride On has some sort of contractual obligation to Gillig for diesel orders.

Tristan · October 31, 2009, 01:14:06 PM

IIRC, I think they're running up on the end of that contract. But azn is correct, I think -- the small TA market for New Flyers is either in piggybacks or used buses. Ride On's current New Flyers were piggybacked on a Culver City order, I think. There is no shortage of agencies ordering NFs, but how is the C40LFR selling? Hybrids are sort of the alt fuel of choice right now for the industry because it doesn't require new fueling equipment...I'm not good at tracking bus orders from other areas, but I can't think of any big CNG purchases from New Flyer right now. Their second quarter backlog only lists MARTA ordering CNG vehicles right now.

IMO, NABI looks really bad right now as a quality bus manufacturer in light of the Chicago debacle, but those buses are a few years old, so maybe they still have a fighting chance from a marketing standpoint if they don't go bankrupt trying to fix those botched artics, and don't screw too many agencies over while trying to keep New Jersey happy.

Although, Buses "R" Us doesn't really have to start thinking about it until 2011, when the 1999 Orion V CNGs turn 12 (and I don't think Ride On has ever retired a heavy-duty bus @ 12 years).

aznboy4305 · October 31, 2009, 03:39:01 PM

Keep in mind that CNGs don't necessarily have to be replaced by CNGs, and diesels don't have to be replaced by diesels. Unless there is some infrastructure limitations that we're not aware of.

Tristan · November 01, 2009, 12:40:41 AM

True - Gaithersburg still tops off its diesel tank I guess.

Scrabbleship · November 01, 2009, 08:27:11 AM

My guess is what Ride On would replace the 1996-98 Orion V's with when the time comes. I'd put money on CNG replacements for those before the 1999's are due.

After riding ART's new CNG NABI's yesterday, I can say that it would be an interesting addition to the Ride On fleet. One downside is do they do sealed frameless windows anywhere? Of course, I think Ride On should go back to opening windows but that's just me.

Tristan · November 01, 2009, 09:46:24 AM

They'll do whatever you tell them to do if you can pay for it...and a sealed window is structurally no different from an opening window (that is, it uses the same sized frame cut) so they wouldn't have an issue doing it. The reason you don't see it anywhere is because it's a bad idea that no one but SEPTA and Ride On does (and RO's Ops Dir came from SEPTA). SEPTA's NABIs have sealed windows I guess.

Scrabbleship · November 01, 2009, 11:55:00 AM

Quote from: Tristan on November 01, 2009, 09:46:24 AM
They'll do whatever you tell them to do if you can pay for it...and a sealed window is structurally no different from an opening window (that is, it uses the same sized frame cut) so they wouldn't have an issue doing it. The reason you don't see it anywhere is because it's a bad idea that no one but SEPTA and Ride On does (and RO's Ops Dir came from SEPTA). SEPTA's NABIs have sealed windows I guess.

CDTA too and their former GM also came from SEPTA. Don't forget all the warm weather TA's that do it due to the heat -- MDT and Houston Metro two of the bigger ones.

mrpete · November 01, 2009, 04:51:51 PM

While NABI had serious problems with the CTA artics (actually a custom order) they are winning business especially in Cali (Santa Monica just ordered 11 BRT artics). But how NABI fares as they wind down the big NJT and LACMTA orders will be interesting.

NABI has also been awarded several small orders for the BRT artics which were probably piggybacked on other big orders.

rideonrulez · November 01, 2009, 06:16:38 PM

I can see them ordering New Flyers because the current Operations Manager is from SEPTA and has even expressed that he would like to go in that direction. As to ordering CNG's to replace the older CNG's; that would make sense because they paid ALOT of money to build the current fueling facility.

News:

Ride On CNG's