Artics and the Divisions that needs them

[79MetroExtraMD]

Frequency of service still wont do squat. I was waiting for the F4 one day and 3 buses passed by me all packed and jamed up the driver just passed by and i looked inside the bus to see why and it was jammed up. If it was an artic im sure i would've got on it.

Frequency does make a difference. Remember, this is PG were talking about. Getting frequent service seems to be flawed in this county than in Montgomery or DC. You have to look at other lines where there is much more ridership and loads at different times of the day (70, S, X, Q, Y, etc).

[LandoverDivision]

We all know PG is the county that needs it badly but look at this: More service means more dependency on the buses and more ridership which means more demand for split service. Look at the 30s. More frequency was a problem because 2 or 3 buses were coming at the same time. The 70, more service yet and still they were forced to make a 79. Along with the S2, S4. Right along with the 16s. So more service is just going to cause a bigger fuss. Plus even if we had more service with 40 footers, people would still be cramped inside the bus. People want space. You don't want to have to stand up for 30 min to an hour on a cramped bus.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

We all know PG is the county that needs it badly but look at this: More service means more dependency on the buses and more ridership which means more demand for split service. Look at the 30s. More frequency was a problem because 2 or 3 buses were coming at the same time. The 70, more service yet and still they were forced to make a 79. Along with the S2, S4. Right along with the 16s. So more service is just going to cause a bigger fuss. Plus even if we had more service with 40 footers, people would still be cramped inside the bus. People want space. You don't want to have to stand up for 30 min to an hour on a cramped bus.

The even 30s were unreliable because of the length of the route, not because the buses arrived frequently.  And without a depot change, artics on the 30s are out of the question (aside from the few runs that come out of Bladensburg), not that you should go there.

Your bus fare does not entitle you to a seat or even a non-crowded bus.  That said, even more service with 40 footers would probably reduce the crowding situation you describe. 

[rideonrulez]

Here's some food for thought. Let's put some numbers together. A 40ft low floor crush loaded carries about 70 people, the F4 operates every 15 minutes during the rush hour, thats equates to 4 buses an hour which means it can carry 280 people an hour one direction. Now if you increase the service to every 10 minutes, you now have 6 buses an hour which now means you have a capacity of 420. An artic crush loaded carries 120 people and if you keep the frequency at 15 minutes it would carry 480 people. So there is an argument for both sides.

[WayneNYC]

Thanks for putting that example out there Chris.  Looking at those numbers, then I'm even more for increased frequency.  At some point one (or more) of those buses will have a problem, like accident, breakdown etc.  So, if you lost one bus on the F4 as it is, then you've lost a whopping 25% capacity during that hour and the average wait between buses goes up to 20 minutes.  If they were operating on a 10 minute headway, one lost bus is only a 10% capacity loss during that hour and the average wait becomes 12 minutes.  More standard buses for me.

[LandoverDivision]

Yes but say if a bus was to break down right? Ok the next bus would be behind it, what do you have? A what would probably be a cramped bus. I'm more for artics because I'm so use to service being like this in PG County. I live here so I have to get use to it I have no other choice. PG won't increase service for crap. At least make people comfortable if they have to wait 30 minutes to an hour for a bus then the trip takes just as long. Yes Oren I agree people don't pay for a seat but let them at least get something in return for thier wait.

[WayneNYC]

Yes but say if a bus was to break down right? Ok the next bus would be behind it, what do you have?

Not necessarily.  My wait times are just averages.  Technically, if you lost a peak hour F4, then people from the breakdown point and beyond realistically has up to a 30 min wait.  The wait could be more than 30 min too because that next bus is now handling it's own passengers plus those that would've been on the bus that was lost.  However, if you lost the one bus on a 10 minute headway, the line doesn't suffer as much.  Also, in my mind it gives more flexibility in terms of possibly short-turning a bus if necessary.

I don't have anything against passengers being comfortable, but for me... personally, I'd take a crowded bus over a longer wait.  I'd bet that most people would also rather see a bus with standing room only show up sooner than a later bus that may have available seats.

[Tristan]

I personally don't think artics are a bad idea *IF* it is plainly, clearly, and absolutely established that service will *NOT* be increased under any realistic circumstances...which often seems to be the case when matters of PG are concerned.  If you wait half an hour (mostly those who don't read bus schedules) and then get passed up, you are severely inconvenienced.  Thing is, if "money" was there, it isn't a question of one over the other because artics would be capital, but service expansion would be operations.

[LandoverDivision]

Yes but say if a bus was to break down right? Ok the next bus would be behind it, what do you have?

Not necessarily.  My wait times are just averages.  Technically, if you lost a peak hour F4, then people from the breakdown point and beyond realistically has up to a 30 min wait.  The wait could be more than 30 min too because that next bus is now handling it's own passengers plus those that would've been on the bus that was lost.  However, if you lost the one bus on a 10 minute headway, the line doesn't suffer as much.  Also, in my mind it gives more flexibility in terms of possibly short-turning a bus if necessary.

I don't have anything against passengers being comfortable, but for me... personally, I'd take a crowded bus over a longer wait.  I'd bet that most people would also rather see a bus with standing room only show up sooner than a later bus that may have available seats.

Agreed, but again, this is PG so you won't see a 10 minute wait...

[Tritransit Area]

It's laughable that an area like PG County has such insufficient service...

I remember I was shocked to find that the C4 ended service so early (on Sundays).

[Annex4421]

So if not increase the service then increase the bus size on routes that needs them. I mean my last trip to MTA Maryland I caught and Artic on the 51 and it diddn't get packed so it wasn't needed but then rush hour came and it was 40fts on that route and it was packed I mean I don't know about MTA but that was kinda backwards. Like the X2 on weekdays needs nothing but artics 40fts on there is kinda pointless (on weekdays). WMATA would probably use them for routes that needs them or for rush hour service. But in PG county some of those routes needs them, I mean i saw a 35ft on the C22, F4, and the P12 and they were packed, so either increase the service or the bus size.

[Annex4421]

 I knew Landover had these I used to ride these on the T18 and F14

http://mnebuspage.fotopic.net/p42974864.html

Someone send me this I don't know where it came from.

[NewFlyer9736BCT]

I knew Landover had these I used to ride these on the T18 and F14

http://mnebuspage.fotopic.net/p42974864.html

Someone send me this I don't know where it came from.

heh...I thought Landover never had artics, and that the upper 5200s used to be Montgomery...

oh well, yeah I know Landover is capable of handling artics so I don't see why not, but as some have pointed out in this thread, it's also a good idea to increase the frequency, but that would just put more buses on the road.

[C40LF_2464]

I knew Landover had these I used to ride these on the T18 and F14

http://mnebuspage.fotopic.net/p42974864.html

Someone send me this I don't know where it came from.

heh...I thought Landover never had artics, and that the upper 5200s used to be Montgomery...

oh well, yeah I know Landover is capable of handling artics so I don't see why not, but as some have pointed out in this thread, it's also a good idea to increase the frequency, but that would just put more buses on the road.

AAAHH YES! A good old 1995 NABI artic in the old scheme mixed up with some flxibles. Those were the days!

[WayneNYC]

I knew Landover had these I used to ride these on the T18 and F14

http://mnebuspage.fotopic.net/p42974864.html

Someone send me this I don't know where it came from.

heh...I thought Landover never had artics, and that the upper 5200s used to be Montgomery...

oh well, yeah I know Landover is capable of handling artics so I don't see why not, but as some have pointed out in this thread, it's also a good idea to increase the frequency, but that would just put more buses on the road.

I heard that Landover had three of them.  I do remember seeing them on the Central Ave C routes and also once on the C11.