Artics and the Divisions that needs them

[Annex4421]

Ok I think we all can agree that just about every division need articulated buses.
I know the Landover needs them for routes like the F4, T18, B30, P12, C22, and others
the Annex needs them for some A routes and the W4 because take it from someone who knows both lines they need them.

[C40LF_2464]

I know the F4. Im a 12+ veteran of landover routes. Been living around that area my entire life and i remember riding the F4 one time and it was so packed the driver had to let us in from the back. In the morning Silver Spring bound bus is packed. Afternoon New Carrolton bound bus is packed. PG Plaza is where it mostly happens. The B30 really needs them for the evening! Arrived at Greenbelt like 100 people standing there. No joke. T18 in the afternoon really needs them. And i think the A12 needs them on a regular bases.

Ok now i know the S9 just opened but that route needs artics at all times of the day (i rode it in the morning/afternoon/evening/night) hands down. I never rode the S2/S4 so i really cant compare.

I cant go on FMR because all they have is Orion VII's but they realy need them for the REX and the pike ride routes and the X's and the 9A.

[OrionFlyer]

What PG County routes really need is an increase in frequency where needed, rather than artics.

The F4 should be a constant 15 minutes during weekdays, 20 during Saturdays, and 30 on Sundays. F6 should be a constant 30 minutes during weekdays and Saturdays, and hourly on Sundays. What exactly is the deal with the bus frequency situation with PG County? A route like the F4,6 should definitely run better than it currently does.

[79MetroExtraMD]

Some points to consider

Most F4 runs interline with the F6 and having an artic assigned to a block that interlines with both would kinda seem inefficient.

As for the B30, most of the time, it's not so much the capacity of the bus, but rather the frequency. With the holiday travel season looming, many more travelers will opt to take the B30. I do wish they did 30 mins instead of 40 mins.

The S9 is mainly busy because 16th Street is just busy at times. The local routes take care of most of the load while the S9 picks up the rest of the load. I've ridden it down during morning rush and its mainly between Mount Pleasant and K Street where the bulk of the passengers board. There are S2s and S4s that start from 14th & Missouri (as well as the S1) to mainly deal with that section. Also, the tics operate on the local core routes.

REX, the 9A, and even Columbia Pike doesn't need them because
a. REX is mainly for the Richmond Highway corridor and Ft. Belvoir workers. The 171 provides service along that corridor alongside some other circular South County routes
2. the 9A is a shorter route that it used to be and it doubles the Blue and Yellow Line between Pentagon and Huntington.
3. The 16 line while busy at times has the different branches working along the same main corridor to provide frequent service during rush hour even upwards of up to 8 and 9pm. I don't really see a need for tics along this corridor since the bulk of folks either get off along the Pike, Culmore, or around Columbia Heights West.
4. You have to remember. The bus has to run on that assigned block for a certain time. If it's an early straight run, it'd be on a run from early morning to early afternoon where mid-morning to early afternoon is mainly the drop off point in loads. Late straight, the opposite.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Even if every division "needs" artics, most of them can't handle them. 

Most TAs use artics as a way to reduce frequency on a route without reducing capacity, though sometimes they can increase service on another route through the dispatching of artics to a specific route.  This has been discussed ad nauseum here already.

The F4/F6 would be far better served with more frequent service instead of articulated buses.

I haven't been over on 16th Street since the S9 started, but if it is like how things work on Georgia Avenue, standard size buses are fine on the limited route.  Also, the artics are meant to be assigned to the 70s and not the Ss.  Take a look at the schedule and you'll see that the 70 runs less frequently than the S2/S4 because the planners expect that artics will be on Georgia Avenue and not 16th Street.

The 5A and B30 are examples of where using artics could increase capacity while maintaining the same frequency, and would be a far better use of the limited artics that WMATA has than some of the other pipe dreams people post here frequently.

It has been proposed to increase the frequency of both the 5A and B30, but unless someone here wants to put up the money for that, it isn't happening in this economic climate.  That is another reason why running artics there would be better than running them on other routes.  You increase capacity while maintaining the same frequency.

[Antozilla]

16 line needs artics and FMR can handle artics as they have them for the 5A.

Artics are exactly why we do not need the unnecessary investment in inferasturcture from Chris Zimmerman's trolley folly.

[79MetroExtraMD]

16 line needs artics and FMR can handle artics as they have them for the 5A.

Artics are exactly why we do not need the unnecessary investment in inferasturcture from Chris Zimmerman's trolley folly.

Are you basing this off of a couple of buses you've seen or a continuous pattern. Like Oren said, the 5A and B30 are two lines where artics would be much more feasible in increasing capacity and maintaining schedules. The 16 line has so many different branches (A B D F G H J W) that all service the main corridor where the bulk of folks board and alight.

[LandoverDivision]

Why do people keep saying that? The F4/6 NEEDS artics. You guys don't catch the F4 a lot. Jereme lives on the F4 line and he know they needs artics. More service with 40 footers is not going to do it. Just like the B30. More service is not going to do. Remind you that buses are late at times so it gets even more jammed. 60 foots are needed point blank.

I don't have a problem with the increase in service, but in a way I just don't think that's going to help. It's better for people to have a seat then to have to stand up for a long ride. Like someone said before, WMATA should order more artics than what they order.

[Scrabbleship]

The F4/F6 would be far better served with more frequent service instead of articulated buses.

Frequent service and any route that is based out of PG is a misnomer. I love how their primary congressperson is so pro-transit, but can't seem to try to pressure PG into doing more.

The 5A and B30 are examples of where using artics could increase capacity while maintaining the same frequency, and would be a far better use of the limited artics that WMATA has than some of the other pipe dreams people post here frequently.

I've thought that it would be wise for WMATA to try to get an order of about 15 or so clean diesel, suburban seated, luggage racked, artics for the 5A and B30. It would finally allow artics for these routes without having to take from other routes and they would be purpose built. Only problem is that the big artic problem (keeping the 5200's around for too long because the 60-BRT's were ordered too soon) will be done by then.

Somehow the B30 seemed a lot less cramped (last-bus-of-the-night aside) with a regular 40' bus than it does with its usual buses.

[Antozilla]

20 years of Pike Transit evperieince

[WMATAGMOAGH]

The F4/F6 would be far better served with more frequent service instead of articulated buses.

Frequent service and any route that is based out of PG is a misnomer. I love how their primary congressperson is so pro-transit, but can't seem to try to pressure PG into doing more.

The 5A and B30 are examples of where using artics could increase capacity while maintaining the same frequency, and would be a far better use of the limited artics that WMATA has than some of the other pipe dreams people post here frequently.

I've thought that it would be wise for WMATA to try to get an order of about 15 or so clean diesel, suburban seated, luggage racked, artics for the 5A and B30. It would finally allow artics for these routes without having to take from other routes and they would be purpose built. Only problem is that the big artic problem (keeping the 5200's around for too long because the 60-BRT's were ordered too soon) will be done by then.

Somehow the B30 seemed a lot less cramped (last-bus-of-the-night aside) with a regular 40' bus than it does with its usual buses.

Frequent service in PG may be a misnomer, but those residents will be far better served with more frequent service than artics.

Why do people keep saying that? The F4/6 NEEDS artics. You guys don't catch the F4 a lot. Jereme lives on the F4 line and he know they needs artics. More service with 40 footers is not going to do it. Just like the B30. More service is not going to do. Remind you that buses are late at times so it gets even more jammed. 60 foots are needed point blank.

I don't have a problem with the increase in service, but in a way I just don't think that's going to help. It's better for people to have a seat then to have to stand up for a long ride. Like someone said before, WMATA should order more artics than what they order.

I don't care who lives where, it doesn't matter.  I was a semi-frequent F4/F6 rider for a few months, though I admittedly went against the peak flow.  The route would do better just with more service, not more capacity.  Artics can cause more problems since they can often have longer dwell times, and that certainly won't improve the conditions you describe.

One of my "home" routes in New York City got converted to artics almost 10 years ago.  IIRC, for every 4 standard buses that were on the line prior to this, they only ran 3 articulated buses.  Because there were fewer buses, dwell times increased and trip times increased.  Bus stops were eliminated to accommodate for the longer buses meaning the stops are now further spaced apart than they used to be 10 years ago.  Also, if a bus stop is full, the buses just sit across the street and wait for it to free up, creating more congestion on that street.  At one point, the New York Times had a reporter race his wife across town where one took the bus and one walked.  The walker made it to the agreed upon destination first.  I've opted to walk instead of taking the bus several times and if it weren't for the short segment in Central Park where the bus can go about 10 times faster than I walk, I would beat the bus nearly every time.  Now, admittedly the MTA's implementation of artics on the north-south lines in Manhattan has been better than the implementation on the crosstown routes, but even so.  Is the type of scenario that you guys really want? 

[Tritransit Area]

Why do people keep saying that? The F4/6 NEEDS artics. You guys don't catch the F4 a lot. Jereme lives on the F4 line and he know they needs artics. More service with 40 footers is not going to do it. Just like the B30. More service is not going to do. Remind you that buses are late at times so it gets even more jammed. 60 foots are needed point blank.

I don't have a problem with the increase in service, but in a way I just don't think that's going to help. It's better for people to have a seat then to have to stand up for a long ride. Like someone said before, WMATA should order more artics than what they order.

Meh, I'd think Jerome would rather have more frequent service than just artics.  Artics can only do so much, and with the crowds on the F4/6, you'll just have people standing on the artics.  Plus the dwell times with the crowds, as the last poster mention, isn't much fun.  Think it's fun trying to get out of a crowded 40 footer?  Try that on a crowded 2 door artic!

Midday service is unbelievably horrendous for this route.  If you double the frequency, the ridership would balance out and you wouldn't have such overcrowded conditions.  Keep on using those Flxes and 40 foot Orion Vs on the route as well, as they offer higher capacity than the New Flyer and Orion low floors.

But anyway, PG needs more funding, etc, so keep writing to your legislature so that y'all can get more funding!

[WayneNYC]

I've been saying for a long time that WMATA needs more artics.  However, I would agree with Oren in regards to the F4/6 .  Throwing artics on a line doesn't necessarily solve problems.  I think the F4/6 would clearly benefit from more standard buses.  Also, other than the holiday rush, I think artics are also not necessary for the B30.

[rideonrulez]

I personally am a fan of more frequent service then bigger buses. Why you ask? The general public won't care if it's an articulated bus that picks them up, they care on how often it comes and how fast they can get there on the bus. The best occasion for a articulated bus would be if the service ran very frequently (2-5 minutes) and was still overcrowded with a standard 40 footer. So in this case I'll have to go with more frequent service on the F4 until it meets this threshold.

[C40LF_2464]

Frequency of service still wont do squat. I was waiting for the F4 one day and 3 buses passed by me all packed and jamed up the driver just passed by and i looked inside the bus to see why and it was jammed up. If it was an artic im sure i would've got on it.