And more SmarTrip upgrade delays...

[Scrabbleship]

This time, blame the IRS for their mandates changing SmartBenefits and similar programs.

Will Metro EVER put the upgrades in place? Or will they just wait until the inevitable SmarTrip replacement (something where a PATCO/MARTA-style "smart ticket" replaces paper farecards) to launch any upgrades. I seriously fear the latter.

Stuff like the what the IRS is doing makes me think that this administration is more and more of a disaster.

[Tristan]

Your views are quite extreme...

I'm pretty sure this upgrade was mandated in the same bill that caused WMATA to eliminate Metrochek (which was a nationwide situation) and replace it with SmartBenefits...which came under the Bush administration.  Not to get political, nothing Obama can do in today's environment would be more of a disas.......you know what, nevermind.

Anyway, this is just the next phase of the same mandate, that had tiered deadlines so agencies across the country aren't faced with these major updates all at once.

In regards to the upgrades -- you have to realize that this isn't NY with one big MTA, or Atlanta with one big(ish) MARTA...this is two states and one federal district with at least 14 different transit systems, all with different fare structures, policies, operating conditions, etc that all have to be taken into consideration. 

The "Regional Partners" have a conference call at least monthly where they discuss the various issues, and from having participated in these calls...I gotta tell you, there are a LOT of complications caused with all these systems being on board.

As one example, we're considering ways to improve the Add Value process on buses.  One suggestion was for the farebox to automatically reject any bill over $1 if the box was in Add Value mode if the driver doesn't manually tell the box to accept it.  For DASH, WMATA, Fairfax Connector, and Ride On, maybe this would be a good solution.......but think about PRTC and eventually, VRE/MARC/MTA Commuter: MOST of their fares are over $5.  The solution in this particular instance would be to make it a per-system option, but that's as complicated as the issue is itself.

Point being, if we had one CTA or one LA MTA operating in one state (sometimes even in one single city/county!), we could be at the same point as these other systems.

[Scrabbleship]

Your views are quite extreme...

I personally am the sort of person who would rather pay a 35% sales tax to cover all taxes and healthcare than deal with more government waste.

I'm pretty sure this upgrade was mandated in the same bill that caused WMATA to eliminate Metrochek (which was a nationwide situation) and replace it with SmartBenefits...which came under the Bush administration.

But this whole "buckets" argument seems to be a new thing and the doubling of the benefit that might have led to this came under Obama.

In regards to the upgrades -- you have to realize that this isn't NY with one big MTA, or Atlanta with one big(ish) MARTA...this is two states and one federal district with at least 14 different transit systems, all with different fare structures, policies, operating conditions, etc that all have to be taken into consideration.

On Twitter last night, one of GGW's contributors said that the original deadline for these SmarTrip upgrades was, get this, 2005!!. What agency promises upgrades and delays them the better part of SIX YEARS!!!? I know that making Metrobus SmarTrip compatible, then getting all the regional providers on board (and PG of course dragged their heels until forced), was the point of some of the delays, but now I think WMATA's just trying to find excuses to not get someone to write some lines of code.

I know other agencies had similar delays (wasn't the Maryland Transit Pass CharmCard supposed to be active last year?), but 6 years? That's just being lazy. It's stuff like this that makes me want some ticked off riders to volunteer their services to WMATA to stop the procrastination and excuses.

As one example, we're considering ways to improve the Add Value process on buses.  One suggestion was for the farebox to automatically reject any bill over $1 if the box was in Add Value mode if the driver doesn't manually tell the box to accept it.  For DASH, WMATA, Fairfax Connector, and Ride On, maybe this would be a good solution.......but think about PRTC and eventually, VRE/MARC/MTA Commuter: MOST of their fares are over $5.  The solution in this particular instance would be to make it a per-system option, but that's as complicated as the issue is itself.

Stuff like this only solidifies why if WMATA is ever replaced why a multi-jurisdictional version of what Pace does in Chicago's suburbs would be a good replacement. Much easier to have 2 operators than 10, even if the costs are cheaper. The costs to riders who don't have perks like "all you can eat" transit that other cities take for granted are a lot higher.

Of course, the best goal would be to merge DC, Montgomery, PG, Fairfax, Arlington, plus any independent cities within into the 51st State, but we lost that chance centuries ago when we mandated DC not be a part of state (a bad move in hindsight).

[aznboy4305]

The spark behind at least one of your arguments was a Twitter post last night?

I think you should research and realize how much politics is involved in making something like this happen in an area like DC. There is a reason why things haven't been done when "they" said it would be done. It isn't really reasonable to make assumptions of what goes on behind closed doors based on what you think you know because of how other areas made it seem. If you've ever taken any transportation planning classes; Models, especially political, do not carry over from city to city.

[79MetroExtraMD]

The spark behind at least one of your arguments was a Twitter post last night?

I think you should research and realize how much politics is involved in making something like this happen in an area like DC. There is a reason why things haven't been done when "they" said it would be done. It isn't really reasonable to make assumptions of what goes on behind closed doors based on what you think you know because of how other areas made it seem. If you've ever taken any transportation planning classes; Models, especially political, do not carry over from city to city.

*clap clap*

[Tristan]

You have to realize that Congressional mandates trump agency priorities/deadlines/promises/ideas, as do jurisdictional politics and budgetary situations.  Also realize that WMATA is not alone in this -- they don't manufacture cards and card readers and fareboxes and really don't even write a whole lot of software.  Ever heard of a company called Cubic?  How about Hummingbird?  GFI?  They have a lot to do with things as well. 

I work with SmarTrip cards on a daily basis and even I don't know all that is involved, but I know there's a hell of a lot in it, and I know that every delay has a legitimate reason.  There's just so much that happens [I'm reluctant to use the phrase "behind closed doors" because that implies secrecy, but] on the inside of things that it's just unfair to pounce on things the way you do.

I'm not defending anyone here, just saying that you should know the facts before you call for people's heads.  Our legal system is based on "innocent until proven guilty" for a reason, but if this were a courtroom, you would have sent a lot of people away without considering or knowing all sides of the situation.

You also don't know the entire history of things -- you're talking about recent promises, but Maryland Transit Pass (originally SmarTrip) should have actually been up and running, according to political timelines, by like 2003.

[Perry]

Just integrating the fare structure amongst all the transit systems in the area was a pain in the neck.  Just before PRTC got their fareboxes, that alone took forever to make sure that it registered the tokens we had at the time and made sure that if you transferred from say Fairfax Connector to PRTC, it knew what fare to charge.  It then took an enourmous amount of time for the SmarTrip cards to be used on there because there were further tests needed, the clearinghouse for funds fixed and the POS machines installed and working.,

[rideonrulez]

Oh, You guys are bringing me bad memories. I was part of the smartrip set up at Ride On and had to go down to the Cubic offices in Virginia for 2 weeks and read pages upon pages of reports on various transactions. I won't beat a dead horse as you guys have already stated what I'm thinking.

[Perry]

I also want to clarify that POS means Point of Sale not the other term for POS. :-)

[WayneNYC]

I also want to clarify that POS means Point of Sale not the other term for POS. :-)

LOL - I knew that, but I figured that on any given day the alternate term could apply:-).

[79MetroExtraMD]

Heck, if it was as difficult for the DC area systems to integrate, just wait until MTA comes online with the Charm Card.

[Scrabbleship]

Heck, if it was as difficult for the DC area systems to integrate, just wait until MTA comes online with the Charm Card.

What systems might join up with MTA and the Charm Card? Annapolis? the Connect-a-Ride/Howard Transit duo? Harford County? Frederick (though Frederick could go either way if they ever so chose)?

After reading all this, it makes me realize that people who work in transit see things a LOT more differently than people on the outside. When the inevitable GGW "Metro's dragged their heels for 5 years" post goes up, I'd love to see one of you anonymously put the smack down on them!

[Perry]

That's ok, everyone has way too many other things to do than to argue with them.

[Scrabbleship]

That's ok, everyone has way too many other things to do than to argue with them.

Maybe I will then. I sure didn't know of the teething difficulties with this unless I read this forum.

In a similar vein, I know of a medium sized TA in the northeast that in 2005 announced plans to collaborate with three local universities to do smart card testing via school ID cards (they also use GFI Odyssey fareboxes). There are still no plans to even procure the funds for said testing 4 years later.

[Scrabbleship]

The inevitable "Metro dilly dallied" GGW post. In it is a link to a WMATA report that states that they took three years (!!) to debate upgrading the system vs. modifying an out-of-date system. If only we could import SmarTrip's fare codes into CharlieCard or ChicagoCard's infrastructure... The uninformed are spouting things such as getting rid of SmarTrip(!!) and putting a new system in place, somehow this sounds like a good idea to at least replace paper farecards.

I have a weird feeling that Perry'll have his infield out and playing ball before the upgrades go into place.