Are the 60-BRTs at Landover Division...

[btconet]

I tend to agree that the F4 could use Artics under existing headways as a way to expand capacity on that route.  Considering the length of trips people take on that route, and that people do get left behind by full buses, it really does need to be improved.  Standing is fine for 15 minutes or so, but expecting folks to stand 30 to 45 minutes on their fare is asking a bit much.

Artics are versatile in how they can be used, and different agencies approach them differently.  SEPTA introduced Artics on routes like the #33 to increase capacity.  Other agencies have used them to widen headways and reduce labor costs in operation, allowing them to either retain more marginal services or introduce services to new areas.  The latter is more of an indirect approach looking at the overall bottom line of the system.

[LandoverDivision]

I tend to agree that the F4 could use Artics under existing headways as a way to expand capacity on that route.  Considering the length of trips people take on that route, and that people do get left behind by full buses, it really does need to be improved.  Standing is fine for 15 minutes or so, but expecting folks to stand 30 to 45 minutes on their fare is asking a bit much.

Artics are versatile in how they can be used, and different agencies approach them differently.  SEPTA introduced Artics on routes like the #33 to increase capacity.  Other agencies have used them to widen headways and reduce labor costs in operation, allowing them to either retain more marginal services or introduce services to new areas.  The latter is more of an indirect approach looking at the overall bottom line of the system.

Thank you at least someone agrees with me. You can't expect to increase service with 40 footers on the F4 and get some improvements with capacity. It's not going to change. If you rode the F4 as much as I did, you'll believe me when I say they NEED artics on the F4.

[Tritransit Area]

I've ridden the F4 before....during the weekday midday...on an Orion VI.  I won't do that again, particularly coming into town with multiple bags to deal with.

I think the F4 is past the point of needing articulated buses.  It needs more frequent service as well, and that needs to be looked into immediately.

Either that or run a heck of a lot more off-peak F6s.

It wouldn't be a bad idea, in my opinion, to keep some of the decrepit American Ikaruses and send them over to Landover for a little while, if not to just test them out.  The CNG NABIs seemed to do well with the B30.  Could the American Ikaruses handle a few more years?

[Scrabbleship]

Seeing how the MAN artics lasted 17-18 years, isolating 10-15 436's and exiling them to Landover would be a good move (I take it they don't have the same electrical problems as the 9500's in Baltimore). When they must be retired, I'd propose and extra artic order to help shore up supplies at Bladensburg/Montgomery/Northern and maybe then send some of the Neoplans to Landover.

[C40LF_2464]

I live around  were the F4 goes i agree with you guys we do need artics i was waitning for an F4 to new carrolton that was packed so i waited for the next it was paccked third one was packed so i got tired and rode TheBus
and it will b e hard making the tight turns tho

[OrionFlyer]

My experience with the F4 is the same as you guys. Having the older NABI's at Landover is not such a bad idea. Maybe they can be on the P12 too.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

I live around  were the F4 goes i agree with you guys we do need artics i was waitning for an F4 to new carrolton that was packed so i waited for the next it was paccked third one was packed so i got tired and rode TheBus
and it will b e hard making the tight turns tho

Artics have a smaller turning radius than standard sized buses.  Tight turns aren't a problem.

[Tritransit Area]

I live around  were the F4 goes i agree with you guys we do need artics i was waitning for an F4 to new carrolton that was packed so i waited for the next it was paccked third one was packed so i got tired and rode TheBus
and it will b e hard making the tight turns tho

Artics have a smaller turning radius than standard sized buses.  Tight turns aren't a problem.

This is typically the case, but the American Ikarus 436s seem to have a worse turning radius.   Someone pointed out that they appear to have the same wheelbase as a 40ft Model 416.

[WES]

Let me add something I didn't put the first time.  If a T/A doesn't have the money to expand a route then, yes putting artics with crush load should happen. 

With that said having to choose between an artic on a route running every 15 minutes, or 2, 40 footers running on that same route running every 7 minutes I would choose the the 7 minute frequency and doing the math you would be adding around 10 more seats, 40 more seats per hour.  In the F4's case if the money was there I would rather see a 5-8 minute frequency with 40 footers than maybe(and remember WMATA could do this), every 15-20 rush, with an artic.  If you don't understand look what happened when they put artics on the Y8............nevermind.   With an artic, though the frequency might be 10 to 15 minutes.

We have said over and over again that WMATA needs to have more artics, and they should keep at least a few of the better running artics and put them where they need them, be it running from Landover on the F4, P12, or Northern for the S2,4, 52,54.

I would even say if it is possible and doesn't violate any federal rules(I don't have knowledge about Federal rules) but even getting some good used artics, till they can replace those with new artics.

You look at some other T/As and wonder why WMATA hasn't increased their artic fleet.
1)NYCTA didn't have artics and all of a sudden they have one of the largest artics fleet in the country
2)Didn't Philly increase their artic fleet when they replaced their Volvos
3)LAMTA had them, got rid of them and then got them again and probably got more than they did the first time.
4)And Chicago signed, if I am correct, is about to get 900 artics, even replacing some of the NABIs they have which number over 200.
5)Lastly if I am correct isn't even B-more keeping some artics when they get the new ones?

So if all of these T/As are expanding artics, why can't WMATA, you can't solve everything with a 40 footer.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Let me add something I didn't put the first time.  If a T/A doesn't have the money to expand a route then, yes putting artics with crush load should happen. 

With that said having to choose between an artic on a route running every 15 minutes, or 2, 40 footers running on that same route running every 7 minutes I would choose the the 7 minute frequency and doing the math you would be adding around 10 more seats, 40 more seats per hour.  In the F4's case if the money was there I would rather see a 5-8 minute frequency with 40 footers than maybe(and remember WMATA could do this), every 15-20 rush, with an artic.  If you don't understand look what happened when they put artics on the Y8............nevermind.   With an artic, though the frequency might be 10 to 15 minutes.

We have said over and over again that WMATA needs to have more artics, and they should keep at least a few of the better running artics and put them where they need them, be it running from Landover on the F4, P12, or Northern for the S2,4, 52,54.

I would even say if it is possible and doesn't violate any federal rules(I don't have knowledge about Federal rules) but even getting some good used artics, till they can replace those with new artics.

You look at some other T/As and wonder why WMATA hasn't increased their artic fleet.
1)NYCTA didn't have artics and all of a sudden they have one of the largest artics fleet in the country
2)Didn't Philly increase their artic fleet when they replaced their Volvos
3)LAMTA had them, got rid of them and then got them again and probably got more than they did the first time.
4)And Chicago signed, if I am correct, is about to get 900 artics, even replacing some of the NABIs they have which number over 200.
5)Lastly if I am correct isn't even B-more keeping some artics when they get the new ones?

So if all of these T/As are expanding artics, why can't WMATA, you can't solve everything with a 40 footer.

I may be wrong, but I think the reason WMATA keeps replacing its artics at a one to one ratio is because the number of facilities that can handle artics is limited, and therefore, expanding the fleet is not possible.  I'm also aware that some divisions have extra capacity, including Montgomery and Landover, which are able to operate artics, but perhaps there are some other shifts that would need to occur for this to happen that would screw things up.

[Tritransit Area]

Do y'all know which facilities are able to maintain articulated buses?  In terms of SEPTA, only Midvale and Allegheny were able to maintain them...I dunno how the third depot was suddenly able to maintain them for service on route 14.

To answer WES's question, SEPTA more than tripled it's fleet of artics with the Neoplan AN460 order.  Now as they are replacing vehicles, they are wondering if more buses are needed.

[WMATAGMOAGH]

Do y'all know which facilities are able to maintain articulated buses?  In terms of SEPTA, only Midvale and Allegheny were able to maintain them...I dunno how the third depot was suddenly able to maintain them for service on route 14.

If memory serves me correctly:

Northern
Bladensburg
Montgomery
Four Mile Run
Landover