Dispute on overhead wires for DC streetcars

[Tristan]

Probably because TriMet A) Has experience operating light rail already, and B) Because the manufacturer (United Streetcar) is in their backyard.

[mrpete]

I believe that Tri-Met and the State of Oregon are trying to jump start a domestic streetcar industry by promoting/assisting United Streetcar, LLC, a subsidiary of Oregon Iron Works, Inc. United is licensed by SKODA to manufacture its designs for the US market, complying with Buy America.

To date it has won contracts for additional vehicles for Portland and new vehicles for Tucson. They are variations of the same design as DCDOT's cars by Inekon following a troubled joint venture with SKODA.

See this Wikipedia article for details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Streetcar

BTW the overhead lines used in Portland, Seattle and Tacoma are practically invisible.

[Tritransit Area]

My goodness, those Portland Streetcars barely have any seats!

In regards to the overhead power, yes, the typical old fashioned trolleywire layout isn't as visually obtrusive as the catenary that you would find on mainline LRT and commuter rail.  That's why I asked earlier if it was catenary or trolley wire that was chosen for the DC Streetcar system.

If you do things the right way, the wire could be integrated into something "artistic", like streetlamp poles down the median of the street.  This would be easy to do along certain sections of H Street.

[WMAveteran]

The discussion in THE WASHINGTON POST continues:  on Sunday, 4/18/2010, columnist Philip Kennicott wrote "But the deeper issue is Washington's relation to the nation.  Do we want to preserve the early 20th-century sense of ourselves as a grand imperial city that overawes tourists?  Or do we want to be a model city for for the 21st century, a place where visitors from across the country and around the world can be inspired by innovative experiments in sustainable urban life?"  Mr. Kennicott appears to favorite a "hybrid" system and concludes" "The flexibility of a hybrid system means that not only can the occasional monumental views be preserved wire-free, but that in certain areas the really distinctive views - the urban allees of overarching trees - might be kept wire-free too.  If DDOT is flexible on both counts, the addition of streetcars would be as beautiful as any view of a marble monolith anywhere in the District." 

On Wednesday, 4/21/2010, another article reported that DC transportation officials applied for $25 million in federal funding "to extend a streetcar line under construction on H Street and Benning Road NE across the Anacostia River."  Apparently DDOT wants to extend the H Street line to Union Station.  The article ended with the following annoucement: "The District is pursuing a hybrid model that would run on overhead wires outside downtown and switch to battery power in the National Mall area and other parts of the original federal city designed by Pierre L'Enfant." 

[Antozilla]

Remember, that trolleys are not clean and green.  That electricity comes from somewhere and in DC that somewhere is coal.  Get a solar powered bus and or CNG and tel em about clean and green, a trolley, not so much.

[Tristan]

It's cleanER but, yes, not clean.  You'll notice that San Francisco Muni's (it's Muni, not MUNI, I actually looked that up!) Skodas say "Zero Emissions Vehicle" on the back -- that's because they use hydroelectric power.



We probably wouldn't want to screw around with damming the Potomac (though we do need a new crossing!!!), so that's probably out.  But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good -- 1 big power plant is cleaner and easier to control than thousands of diesel engines.  The real question is, how much more can our grid support?

[mrpete]

Bombardier and Augsburg, Germany to test caternary-free system

http://www.metro-magazine.com/News/Story/2010/05/Bombardier-Augsburg-Germany-to-conduct-catenary-free-pilot.aspx

This technology is not ready for full scale implementation including some short segments of tram lines in French cities.

[WMAveteran]

On Wednesday, July 14, 2010 THE WASHINGTON POST reported that the "D.C. Council made way for the first leg of a 37-mile trolley system Tuesday, unanimously approving legislation that allows overhead wires along Benning Road and H Street NE."  "George Clark, president of the Committee of 100 on the Federal City, called the legislation an improvement because it also prohibits overhead wires along Pennsylvania Avenue between the White House and Congress." 

[mrpete]

   
• Alstholm's APS system is the only technology that's actually in service at this time primarily in several French cities where it is deployed on short segments of their tram networks in historic parts of those cities. As mentioned in an earlier post to this thread other approaches are being developed but none are ready for prime time: they're still in the prototype testing stage of development. When they are ready for market they are likely to be significantly more expensive than traditional overhead wire power systems and therefore have a big impact on construction costs, initially, until they become more widely deployed.
• Also since these are proprietary technologies they are exclusive to the vehicles of those manufacturers. Thus if one turns out to be "better" than the others you'll have to buy their trains and their infrastructure know-how to get it.
  
  Keep in mind that where the Alstholm  technology is now deployed is in areas with relatively mild or warm climates  without the weather extremes we experience here. (While we would consider Brasilia and Dubai "extreme" climates, they are stable without the wide temperature and precipitation swings we experience here.) This is a major reliability factor that  the other manufacturers are focusing on in their test bed locations since the major components will be continually exposed to the weather, traffic and, yes, potential vandalism.
  
  While the local powers that be may loathe an "electric hairnet" around the Mall, are they willing to shovel out big $$$$ to be the beta tester for cutting edge technology. Especially given the current operational and maintenance challenges of the "proven" technology of Metrorail/MARC/Amtrak?