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I sure do!
RTS-Hated them!! The seat springs would stick out and the windows would barely open. I rode them ALL the time since I grew up in Montgomery County which at the time the whole fleet was there. The only thing I did like about them was the noise it would make when it was going fast.
MAN Articulated-Love them though they were slow as hell and the AC did'nt work for squat.
Gillig Phantoms-I did'nt care for these because the longitude seating. But I loved the HUGE destination roll signs.
9600 Orion V's-I LOVED these when they first came in. Shiny seats and a 6V92 engine, they were AWESOME!! Then they rehabbed them and had no love for them anymore....
I don't think that last one is an Orion V. Heck Metro even had Twin Coach Mini buses on the first incarnation of the Circulator. Called the downtowner as I recall
Yeah the last one is an 9600 Orion V before they were rehabbed/repowered. Remembered riding those on the 30 line once. Man that 6V92TA was something else.
I had never seen the 9600 series Orions in the second paint scheme (had to do a double take at first). In my travels to DC, I did remember seeing the RTS and the 5000 and 5100 series MANs. I didn't recall seeing the Phantoms.
The Phantoms mainly ran in SE. When first delievered, some were delieved to Bladensburg, if not all and they had those curtain signs, which BTW were the last WMATA buses with those signs. The RTSs and the first group of MANs also had roll signs before all were replaced with electronic signs. The one funny thing about the first group of MANs where that they had a rear roll destination sign, and in everyone said the word "BYE". Also the first group of MANs had silver front and rear bumpers, most had tilt in windows, except for 5011 had sealed windows and of course the roll signs. Mostly all of them had the windows changed to sliding sash, got electronic signs, mostly black bumpers (most if not all kept their silver rear bumpers) but kept like I said the rear route roll signs. The MANs used to dominate the X2 when first delievered, but was split to serve the 70 later in their lifes. One thing I liked about the MANs was their front doors when they made a loud SHHHHHHHH! sound and if I am correct the front doors could open independently of each other.
I thought the RTSs were cool, since all of them were at Montgomery and none ran on any of the old ANNEX routes and I rarely got to ride one unless I was in Montgomery County or rode the F6. They were fast, but the seats (like in all buses) were too small to fit me.
The Orions, with the 6Vs were actually pretty fast and 9652, with it's DD50 was even faster. It was a shame they switched out the 6Vs to DD50s, that's when they started to suck, couldn't get a hill worth a damned.
I only rode one of WMATA's Gilligs once and that was before they were retired. They were ok and one funny moment was when I was at Minnesota Avenue waiting to pick up my mother and one had stopped on the old U6. Some woman not paying attention ran into the back of the bus and apparently the bus driver didn't know he was hit and just drove off. Meanwhile the woman's car was crumpled and I guess she couldn't move it, it had to be towed away.
I remember the MANs although I didn't have a chance to ride them. I remember the 9600s but after rehab though.
MAN artics used to run on the old R8 from Calverton to Fort Totten. It was fun to get one on there. Not fun to get one on the Q2 as they crawled up the big hills on Viers Mill Road.
The 9600's at first I didn't care for, but after they repowered them I realized I missed them the old way. When I first saw them in '92 I had no idea what it was since it looked so different than what WMATA had been getting, so it was nice to see a little variety.
I remember driving the RTS's when I worked for "The House of Mouse" when the EX & I lived in Winter Park Florida in 87-88-89. Thats where I started driving buses professionally.
I didn't like rear door wheelchair access. =(
Do you wish WMATA kept them longer?
I remember the phantoms in SE. I think I rode one at one point probably when I was young and didn't know squat. Also does anybody remember the one Orion V with a dark blue LED? Spotted one of those on the 94 back in '01 or '02.
Not really that was when Southeastern had Metro D's, Orion V's and VI's
I was happy to have seen and rode most of those WMATA buses from the past. I always liked MAN artics because of the rear section steering. That's where it all ended because they were oh so slow. I've ridden many a slow bus, but I recall numerous times when cresting a hill they were barely moving. No joking! Then on level roads they weren't fast at all. I do recall three fast MAN artic rides I had. Two were Westcherster County, Bee Line units going downhill on I-95. The other was a WMATA bus. It was a S/B Q2 that had just left Wheaton and, the B/O was able to get some nice speed going on GA Ave as the lights were green and we didn't stop until Forest Glen.
The RTS were OK. I used to pass them up often as I was just RTSed-out after just moving here from NYC. Anyone who doesn't know...Back in the mid 90's NYCTA's had over 3000 RTS. WMATA's were quited tired at the end and rattled like crazy. As Chris said though.... Their DD 6V92/Allison made some sweet music at speed.
Never rode their Gillig Phantoms, but I remember seeing them in their last years.
I remember when the 9600s were new in '92. I didn't live here yet, but I remember visiting and was suprised when I saw one in DC. They were pretty cool back them, but I avoided them like the plague after they were repowered. I was happy to see them go. These were the only buses I disliked more than the '00 Orion V 2100/2200s.
Quote from: annex4421 on September 11, 2009, 11:17:08 AM
Quote from: Perry on September 10, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
MAN artics used to run on the old R8 from Calverton to Fort Totten. It was fun to get one on there. Not fun to get one on the Q2 as they crawled up the big hills on Viers Mill Road.
The 9600's at first I didn't care for, but after they repowered them I realized I missed them the old way. When I first saw them in '92 I had no idea what it was since it looked so different than what WMATA had been getting, so it was nice to see a little variety.
What about these
(//)
What about them?
Why don't you like the 21/2200s they're the Orion V's unless you'd prefer WMATA getting one similar to the one Ride-On has
Quote from: Perry on September 11, 2009, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: annex4421 on September 11, 2009, 11:17:08 AM
Quote from: Perry on September 10, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
MAN artics used to run on the old R8 from Calverton to Fort Totten. It was fun to get one on there. Not fun to get one on the Q2 as they crawled up the big hills on Viers Mill Road.
The 9600's at first I didn't care for, but after they repowered them I realized I missed them the old way. When I first saw them in '92 I had no idea what it was since it looked so different than what WMATA had been getting, so it was nice to see a little variety.
What about these
What about them?
Don't you miss those
I do miss them, but they have to go at some point.
True. Just like the Metro D 's A an E's WMATA is gonna be weird without them
Quote from: annex4421 on September 11, 2009, 01:23:24 PM
Why don't you like the 21/2200s they're the Orion V's unless you'd prefer WMATA getting one similar to the one Ride-On has
Well... Personally, I've never cared much for Orion V & VII buses. I'm aware that WMATA's 21/2200s buses are Orion Vs. In my tolerance of Orion Vs over the years the 21/2200 simply had no "personality" to me. IMO, most other buses seem to have something about them that's likeable. For me on the 21/2200s the only good things I can say are they have great A/C and the soft seating. That's the busfan side of me. Now from a practical standpoint: I realize that these buses seem to be holding their own as serious workhorses at tough divisions like Northern and the Annex.
They're none at annex Its has been since 2005 that Annex had those which was 2220-2231, You probably was thinking of the old Southeastern and Western. The 42/4300s have soft seats too and basicly is the same bus. The 2100s have strong engines plus I get if you're Tired of them but like I said southeastern had them and they were popular on the A Routes not to mention the M6 on the weekends. As for the VII's I kinda see why you would dislike these because the 30 footers are too small for wmata, they should have ordered 35 footers.But at least you like the VI. The New flyers are just as good as the Orions Besides who know if tomorrow wmata stops ordering New Flyers. I understand that feel the suck but what if there were to be 21/2200s in you area? would you stop riding metro because of that. Plus although I love the flx's I give anything to see something else at Annex.
This is a nice topic. I actually rode most of the buses featured here, and remember them. I never rode a WMATA Gillig. In fact, it wasn't until I read "The Story of Metro" and saw a picture of one. Later, while riding in a car, I saw one in service. Now, 30 foot Orion Vs dominate those routes:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/Bastranz/DC%20Area%20Transit/WMATA/Metrobus/Orion/Orion%20V/WMATA3934-HowardRd-KingJrAve-6-28-0.jpg)
Now, in regards to the 2100s, Montgomery and Northern were chock full of them, and I used to ride the ALL THE TIME on the K6. While they are nice and apparently durable, they are so so so bland. What makes them worse than the 4300s is that they are starting to have those EGR things, like the whooshing and a little screech every now and then. But boy, are they fast!
I wouldn't mind if WMATA stopped ordering New Flyers. I actually wasn't pleased that they decided to dominate the fleet with New Flyers. WMATA was my escape from New Flyer City, otherwise known as Philadelphia, PA, where I hail from when I'm not a DC guy.
Oh yes, I used to ride the RTSs all the time on the K6 - not bad, but they sure did rattle! I also used to ride the Flx New Looks on, you guessed it, the K6 as well way back in the day.
I don't remember if Montgomery/Northern had 9200s in the early 90's. I only remember riding the 93/9400s on the K6 and other WMATA routes. Besides, the 9200 were JUST retired within the last few years, lol.
Ah, the memories :)
Montgomery got 9200's right away when they were delivered. The C2 I'd catch from Hyattsville to Beltway Plaza for my job at Three Brothers would routinely get one of the 9220's. This was the summer of '88.
The only time I rode one of the WMATA Gilligs was when we had them at PRTC after buying them from Quantico Marine Base.
I don't really mind the Flyers. I would like to see buses from different bus manufacturers too. I want to see some NovaBuses or some Designlines.
NOOOOO!! Nova NAW Designline won't mind
The Story of Metro? Is that a book or is it Metro at 25 or ?????
Guys how much of this is a conversation that should be taken of line and how much of this is posts that we all benefit from?
Like Wes, I thought the RTSs were cool. I rode them a lot on the "J2." They were delivered originally with non-opening windows because GM told Metro that the bus AC systems were fool-proof and Metro swallowed the story hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, since they were mechanical systems they did break down (and always at the most inopportune times - such as 90 degree days in July). The stories about these rolling saunas were legendary.
In addition to the mechanical problems, there was a construction problem caused by the fuel line for the separate motor than ran the AC system. The AC fuel line sipped fuel from the main fuel tank, however it was not long enough to reach the bottom of the tank, so as the fuel level dropped the AC fuel line was left "high and dry" and thus no AC for the passengers.
Metro spent a fortune retrofitting the RTSs with opening windows and longer fuel lines.
Personally, although I really liked them, they were really slow and if the AC was functioning and the bus was climbing a hill - you could walk faster than the bus (lol).
Not to mention, but if the bus was full, and people were standing in the rear stairwell, and fell onto the rear doors, the rear doors would spring open & you could be run over by the bus you were riding upon (9048) at Chevy Chase Circle.
Quote from: WMAveteran on September 19, 2009, 02:07:51 PM
Like Wes, I thought the RTSs were cool. I rode them a lot on the "J2." They were delivered originally with non-opening windows because GM told Metro that the bus AC systems were fool-proof and Metro swallowed the story hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, since they were mechanical systems they did break down (and always at the most inopportune times - such as 90 degree days in July). The stories about these rolling saunas were legendary.
In addition to the mechanical problems, there was a construction problem caused by the fuel line for the separate motor than ran the AC system. The AC fuel line sipped fuel from the main fuel tank, however it was not long enough to reach the bottom of the tank, so as the fuel level dropped the AC fuel line was left "high and dry" and thus no AC for the passengers.
Metro spent a fortune retrofitting the RTSs with opening windows and longer fuel lines.
Personally, although I really liked them, they were really slow and if the AC was functioning and the bus was climbing a hill - you could walk faster than the bus (lol).
The problems you described with the RTSs were commonplace with that particular model (RTS II-03...the slantback). It's interesting to know the exact flaws with the RTS airconditioning design, though.
In regards to the slowness...were the RTSs just really heavy or were 6v92TA engines just not that strong back then?
Quote from: Antozilla on September 11, 2009, 11:44:25 PM
The Story of Metro? Is that a book or is it Metro at 25 or ?????
The story of Metro was a book published before Metro at 25. I think it was published in the early 90s. It's a nice read with plenty of pics, and it even features the Ride-On bus of the times, the TMC T-30 Citycruiser (wow, how the time has flown). I'm not sure where to purchase it, but I found it in my local library (in Pennsylvania).
Quote from: Tritransit Area on September 20, 2009, 04:26:08 AM
Quote from: WMAveteran on September 19, 2009, 02:07:51 PM
Like Wes, I thought the RTSs were cool. I rode them a lot on the "J2." They were delivered originally with non-opening windows because GM told Metro that the bus AC systems were fool-proof and Metro swallowed the story hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, since they were mechanical systems they did break down (and always at the most inopportune times - such as 90 degree days in July). The stories about these rolling saunas were legendary.
In addition to the mechanical problems, there was a construction problem caused by the fuel line for the separate motor than ran the AC system. The AC fuel line sipped fuel from the main fuel tank, however it was not long enough to reach the bottom of the tank, so as the fuel level dropped the AC fuel line was left "high and dry" and thus no AC for the passengers.
Metro spent a fortune retrofitting the RTSs with opening windows and longer fuel lines.
Personally, although I really liked them, they were really slow and if the AC was functioning and the bus was climbing a hill - you could walk faster than the bus (lol).
The problems you described with the RTSs were commonplace with that particular model (RTS II-03...the slantback). It's interesting to know the exact flaws with the RTS airconditioning design, though.
In regards to the slowness...were the RTSs just really heavy or were 6v92TA engines just not that strong back then?
I don't know this for sure, but I believe that all RTS 01 & 03 series were available with either the DD 6V-71N or DD 8V-71N engine. Like SEPTA, I suspect WMATA selected the 6V-71N engine for their RTSs and then repowered them later with the DD 6V-92TA engine.
When the later model (04 series squared back) came along, I think the engine choices were either DD 6V-71N or DD 6V-92TA. Most agencies purchasing the 04 series seemed to select the 6V-92TA, but some did get the 6V-92TA. NYCTA was one of those who got the 6V-71N in their '81 04 series RTS. Actually out of the 837-bus order 50 of them had the 6V-92TA engine (thankfully 20 of them were assigned to my home garage, Kingsbridge). NYCTA would get an RTS order each year until 1987 (then they skipped a couple of years) and all except the '83 group were purchased with the DD 6V-92TA engine.
Then we have these. Credit to the photographer
and this
I remeber thoes gillig's on the W4 one day...and the driver would always say W4 when he opened the door.
For those that might be interested the Downtowner mini busses had Chrysler big block gasoline engines in them.
Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs? That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left. ADA took that away!
I still kick myself today because I used to go to church in Deep SE with my grandmother *every Sunday* -- she went to a little church off of Alabama & Good Hope, and I would see the Gilligs going INTO the shopping center all the time, but could never get one because I was too young to understand what I was looking at. I think I made up for it between Alexandria and BWI Airport though :-)
The other great thing about the MANs was that the engine was in the center and the bellows were sealed about as tightly as a prostit...um nevermind, suffice it to say they weren't very airtight at all and clouds of exhaust would flow straight from the exhaust pipe and into the joint, hotboxing the entire bus. Oh, and which window do you want to open to ventilate it? They were all different colors!
Quote from: Tristan on October 05, 2009, 09:45:19 AM
Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs? That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left. ADA took that away!
I still kick myself today because I used to go to church in Deep SE with my grandmother *every Sunday* -- she went to a little church off of Alabama & Good Hope, and I would see the Gilligs going INTO the shopping center all the time, but could never get one because I was too young to understand what I was looking at. I think I made up for it between Alexandria and BWI Airport though :-)
The other great thing about the MANs was that the engine was in the center and the bellows were sealed about as tightly as a prostit...um nevermind, suffice it to say they weren't very airtight at all and clouds of exhaust would flow straight from the exhaust pipe and into the joint, hotboxing the entire bus. Oh, and which window do you want to open to ventilate it? They were all different colors!
Tristan trust me as much as I loved the Phantoms you might not have enjoyed them they had mostly side seats and yellow strip like stop requested buttons that got smashed in all the time, other than that good buses so might have like them IDK.
I love the MANs, they were the outcasts of buses back in the day, sorta like NJT's Volvos. The one cool thing I remember about them is the steering rear axle and that SMELL. Its not just the exhaust fumes from the mid-mounted engine, but also the musky smell of that interior. And they would always struggle up and down Viers Mill Road as well.
Quote from: Tristan on October 05, 2009, 09:45:19 AM
Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs? That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left. ADA took that away!
I remember that handrail! I thought it was the coolest thing ever. It's kinda like the Kawasaki LRVs that we have up here in Philly with the blinker doors, only with more room since there's only a rail separating you and Shaniqua rather than a solid pillar.
I used to ride them on the 70 sometimes (othertimes we got the wonderful Metro Bs), but I don't remember all the fun details like exhaust and steering rear wheels.
It sure made for boarding and alighting easier. I hated taking them on the Q2 because that huge hill on Veirs Mill Road would kill them, but on the J2 they were fun to ride on the curvy E-W Hwy segment.
Between the vinyl seats and the exhaust fumes, you could do some serious trippin' on there.
Im missed out on all that. Im sure i rode one when i was a youngster because me and my mom rode the X2 all the time. In fact my mother told me the first bus route i rode was the X2 and back in the 90's id bet it was a MAN bus. I remember riding some but i never paid it any more. If only i could afford money to make a time machine.
Quote from: Tristan on October 05, 2009, 09:45:19 AM
Does anyone else remember the handrails in the MIDDLE of the steps on the MANs? That was a feature I miss to this day, because you could either enter on the right and wait for Shaniqua 'n'em on the X2 to get off on the left, or you could let cash fares board on the right and passes/transfers board on the left. ADA took that away!
I still kick myself today because I used to go to church in Deep SE with my grandmother *every Sunday* -- she went to a little church off of Alabama & Good Hope, and I would see the Gilligs going INTO the shopping center all the time, but could never get one because I was too young to understand what I was looking at. I think I made up for it between Alexandria and BWI Airport though :-)
The other great thing about the MANs was that the engine was in the center and the bellows were sealed about as tightly as a prostit...um nevermind, suffice it to say they weren't very airtight at all and clouds of exhaust would flow straight from the exhaust pipe and into the joint, hotboxing the entire bus. Oh, and which window do you want to open to ventilate it? They were all different colors!
I also remember that handrail. I always remembers either exiting passengers leaving the bus on the lef and entering passengers on the right.Or passengers with transfers entering on the left and passengers paying entering on the right.
That picture of the WMATA 1992 Orion V reminds me of NYCT 1993 Orion V and the pictures of them when they were new and/or few years old when another person took pictures of them.
That picture must be a taken around 1990's I'm guessing.
Quote from: WES on September 10, 2009, 02:12:29 PM
The Orions, with the 6Vs were actually pretty fast and 9652, with it's DD50 was even faster. It was a shame they switched out the 6Vs to DD50s, that's when they started to suck, couldn't get a hill worth a damned.
Well maybe WMATA should have chosed the ZF Transmission instead of Voith Transmission when they were repowering the 1992 Orion V. The ZF Transmission has excellent performance in climbing up Hills from what i heard and can go faster especially with DDS50.
OH! I can only imagine an Orion V with a ZF - those would've been great to ride! ZFs do have nice climbing abilities!
Yup, all of the above. Those were really WMATA buses alright!
I really wish I could've rode an RTS or pre-rehab 9600 in their prime. :(
omg THANK YOU SO MUCH for the pic of 9632, FINALLY I see what a 2nd scheme WMATA 9600 looks like, and may I say, it looks nice and new, when were these pics taken?