OKAY I AM A BUS OPERATOR FOR METRO IVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE COMPANY SINCE 1997 IM NOT TRYIN TO LOOSE MY JOB WITH SOME ONE ASKING ME PERSONAL INFORMATION OKAY. THERE WAS A MEETING THIS AFTERNOON THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BAND ANYONE WHO TAKE PICTURES OF ANY METRO VEHICLE BECUZ OF AND EARLIER INCIDENT THAT HAPPEN ON FRIDAY NOTICES WAS POSTED IN THE DIVISIONS AND GIVEN OUT TO ALL METRO PERSONELL THERE IS A PERSON THAT IS CALLING ALL METROBUS GARAGES SAYING THAT THEY WORK FOR METRO . I THINK THAT THESE FORUM POST ARE GREAT AND REAL COOL BUT U GUYS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL CUZ METRO IS NOT PLAYING WITH PHOTO TAKEN ON ANY BUS OR METRORAIL SYSTEM. SO JUST BE CAREFUL THERE ARE TRYIN TO MAKE A LAW OF THIS MATTER.
There was a meeting this afternoon that they are going to ban anyone who takes pictures of any Metro vehicle because of an earlier incident that happened on Friday. Notices were posted in the divisions and given out to all Metro personnel that there is a person who is calling all Metrobus garages saying that they work for Metro. I think that these forums are great and real cool but you guys have to be careful because Metro is not playing with photo taking on any bus or in the Metrorail system, so just be careful because they are trying to make a law of this matter.
Here is the problem. New Jersey Transit had a law banning transit failed, Boston had one and failed, and New York City was trying in earnest to try to get a law and failed, what does WMATA think that trying to get a law passed to ban photography of buses and trains will work. Also they cannot arrest a person for taking a bus photo on public property.
Lastly I want to know about the incident that caused this issue to come up. It had to be that someone either took a photo in a station, or around it that used a flash, had a tripod or interfered with the safe operation of a bus or train. That can be chaulked up to an idiot, but banning photography for one instance, that's just stupid. Why don't they try and go after more of these kids in SE who are REALLY endandering bus operator lives by throwing rocks and other crap at buses, instead of some hobbiest taking a photo of a bus.
So much for going on with your lives after 9/11.
Quote from: WES on August 04, 2008, 08:15:28 PM
Here is the problem. New Jersey Transit had a law banning transit failed, Boston had one and failed, and New York City was trying in earnest to try to get a law and failed, what does WMATA think that trying to get a law passed to ban photography of buses and trains will work. Also they cannot arrest a person for taking a bus photo on public property.
Lastly I want to know about the incident that caused this issue to come up. It had to be that someone either took a photo in a station, or around it that used a flash, had a tripod or interfered with the safe operation of a bus or train. That can be chaulked up to an idiot, but banning photography for one instance, that's just stupid. Why don't they try and go after more of these kids in SE who are REALLY endandering bus operator lives by throwing rocks and other crap at buses, instead of some hobbiest taking a photo of a bus.
So much for going on with your lives after 9/11.
I agree with you. This puts a dent in those people who take photographs as a hobby, including myself. I do not trespass into restricted areas. I follow all rules and make sure I am not interfering with operations. I know plenty of Metrobus operators and a few supervisors and they know I do this as a hobby. I would also like to know of the incident as well. Also, there are other things to worry about than photography. Like WES said, the kids in SE endangering the lives of Metrobus operators who are doing their job as well as trying to operate a vehicle safely with different hazards albeit other drivers, unruly passengers, etc. This post 9/11 world has turned what we hold dear against as to a point where our lives are controlled by rules and laws that prohibit us from living our lives freely. A photo ban in the DC area won't survive as there are alot of enthusiasts as well as tourists who take pictures of buses and trains. If it didn't work in NYC or Boston, it probably won't happen here.
THE THING IS THIS THE DUMMY THAT TOOK THE PIC WAS ON METRO PROPERTY AND SOMEONE REPORTED IT AND SAID HE/SHE WAS LOOKING STRANGELY SUSPICIOUS. METRO IS PUTTING PLAINED COTH OFFICERS ON TRAINS AND BUSES IN SEPTEMBER. THATS WHY MOST OF US DO NOT LIKE PICKING THE A LINE ITS VERY DANGEROUS IN THAT ANACOSTIA/BERRY FARMS/CONGRESS HGHTS AREA. THATS WHY THE STARTER PUT OLD FLEET ON THOSE LINES. THE 6100'S NEW FLYERS COACHES ARE STRICTLY USE ON MARYLAND LINES ONLY
THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED ON ANY A LINE ROUTE IN THE DISTRICT. THEY ARE ONLY USED ON THESE ROUTES
D12,D13,D14,M5 (ONLY2),W13,14,17,18,19,P17,18,19 39 LIMITED STARTING FROM NAYLOR ONLY AM TRIPPERS. SO THEY ARE VERY STRICT.
Can I ask a favor of you AnnexOperator. Can you please refrain from using all caps. It gives an impression of shouting.
We've asked this before, doesn't seem to work. I don't even really understand what's going on here, is Metro putting some ban against photography? Good luck...
What happened to installing operator shields? Did they just skip on that and now focusing on this?
Well, most of us don't take pics inside of metrobus divisions, me personally don't need to. I know my limitations and as I have stated elsewhere, I can take pics elsewhere instead of going into a garage or at the Pentagon to take a bus pic. If I don't feel comfortable taking pics, I won't and believe me I have taken thousands of pics. My guess is this person went inside of Bladensburg to take pics of the new NABIs that came in. I mean I don't care if I am the first one to take a pic of a bus, if the opportune time comes and I happen to see one rolling down the street, heck yea I will try to get a pic, but WILL not go into a garage to do it.
Quote from: WES on August 04, 2008, 08:37:30 PM
Well, most of us don't take pics inside of metrobus divisions, me personally don't need to. I know my limitations and as I have stated elsewhere, I can take pics elsewhere instead of going into a garage or at the Pentagon to take a bus pic. If I don't feel comfortable taking pics, I won't and believe me I have taken thousands of pics. My guess is this person went inside of Bladensburg to take pics of the new NABIs that came in. I mean I don't care if I am the first one to take a pic of a bus, if the opportune time comes and I happen to see one rolling down the street, heck yea I will try to get a pic, but WILL not go into a garage to do it.
I'll wait till things are in service to take pics of them. I've been in Montgomery garage and Landover garage before but didn't need to take pics because it wasn't of myself to do so. Most likely a particular bus will be put out for service. When the 5400s come out in service, that's when I'll take pics of them.
WMATA trying to ban picture taking? SSSHHHEEEIIITTTTT That's what we have public streets for ;D
I guess the "We Meet And Talk Alot" still stands.
Quote from: rideonrulez on August 04, 2008, 09:24:35 PM
WMATA trying to ban picture taking? SSSHHHEEEIIITTTTT That's what we have public streets for ;D
I guess the "We Meet And Talk Alot" still stands.
Lol. I never would have thought about that one.
From a legal standpoint, WMATA cannot ban photographing its buses or trains from public property, such won't stand in a court of law based on what happened in New Jersey. From a practical standpoint, WMATA cannot ban "tourist" photography on the subway. There are too many tourists who want to take snapshot photos of the stations or trains. I don't think any of the people on this board loiter around any single station long enough to attract police attention, anyway. I honestly don't think we have anything to worry about.
From reading AnnexOperator's posts, I think this might be the situation: Some person who isn't authorized to be in the bus yards is going around and getting photos, or there is an employee impersonator on the loose. It is too bad such people make our hobby difficult. Having met a number of the people who post here, I highly doubt those of us here are going to end up with problems as a result of this unless we start wandering into unauthorized areas.
In short, I'm not worried. Hopefully, whoever is causing this trouble is found or just stops doing it.
I would agree that someone probably went too far in an attempt to get pics and/or just checking out what was in a particular yard. As much as I like to get pics, the one rule I won't break is trespassing. I've gotten many pics at Bladensburg and CET, but all were taken from a public sidewalk/street. I've always been one to try to get my pics without distracting or even getting the B/O's attention. This is why I tend to shoot from a distance and zoom in. I also rarely take pics in bus bays at Metrorail stations. I'm perfectly fine with shooting from the streets.
I can remember several years ago on a subtalk field trip when I was approached about picture taking out at Addison Road --- Nothing came of it, he said that still photos were fine, just no video...
I remember that trip! That's when I was holding stanind in the door of the rear car. That was pretty ridiculous. This whole photo ban thing is crazy. Plainclothes should be out looking for thieves not some shlub taking a picture of a train or a bus.
metro does not want no one on there property taking pictures,drivers were also complaining about the photo taking aswell.
It's a public space. How about this? Next time I'm walking down the street and someone is taking a picture and I happen to be in it, I'll ask them to have it deleted or call the cops. That's about a lame as this whole photo "ban" thing. What's next, banning photos of trees? I know they are pretty sensitive these days as they don't want to be the next one chopped down for development.
Okay here is what happen someone went into the FourMile garage secound yard and took pictures and went on the buses in the secound yard and took pictures until the persons got caught by maint.staff.
Even if WMATA makes life hard for those wishing to take photos on their property, they can't do anything about the person taking pics on the street. That said, I think we all agree that non-employees should not be trespassing to get photos or even distracting bus operators and train operators with flash photography.
Quote from: WayneNYC on August 05, 2008, 11:20:44 AM
Even if WMATA makes life hard for those wishing to take photos on their property, they can't do anything about the person taking pics on the street. That said, I think we all agree that non-employees should not be trespassing to get photos or even distracting bus operators and train operators with flash photography.
Well said, Wayne.
Ok folks, I am going to end the argument concerning photography in public areas of WMATA property once and for all.
Read Section 100.8 on pages 9-12 (PDF pages 13-16) of Regulation Concerning The Use By Others Of WMATA Property (http://www.wmata.com/about/parp_docs/UseRegulations.pdf).
The pertinent entry concerning casual photography is on page 10 (PDF pages 14) in Section 100.8 (a) (2).
Relevant text: "Still photography that does not require a tripod, special lighting, film
crews, models, impair the normal ingress/egress or operation of WMATA
services and can be accomplished by a hand- held camera by one person
is not regulated."
John, I don't think this "ENDS" the argument, because what AnnexOperator presented was something that sounds like an attempt to change what the text says.
"Tristan "
John, I don't think this "ENDS" the argument, because what AnnexOperator presented was something that sounds like an attempt to change what the text says.
The key word in your replay is "attempt". No one within WMATA below the Board of Directors can arbitrarily change rules or procedures unless they are granted the power to do so.
Read the Preamble in Section 100 on pages 1 and 2 (PDF pages 5 and 6).
My Advice to all is to carry a copy of the WMATA Use Regulations (http://www.wmata.com/about/parp_docs/UseRegulations.pdf) when taking picture in publicly accessible areas of WMATA equipment and facilities. I would also suggest carrying extra copies of the cover page with the full URL printed on it so that the confronting individual can refer to it at a later time.
I was thinking that as well, John. If things become a big problem, I will make a wallet-sized card to carry around (and will post that here)...
Let's just sit this one out and see what happens...I bet not much will come from it.
If you think about it, this should not be viewed as someone taking a picture in WMATA's divisions, this is a overall security threat. WMATA should take precautions to prevent any unauthorized person from getting in any of their divisions. I remember a few years ago, a couple of theives tried to cover up a robbery, went into the Southern Avenue Annex division, set fire to some of the Neoplans that were stored there to cover up said robbery. And yes this was before 911, but the fact that someone ventured onto WMATA property and noone caught this person even crossing their bus yard border should mean that cameras should be going up in all their divisions with someone monitoring all parts of the garage. If some idiot busfan can get into a garage to take pics, then what would prevent some idiot terrorist from getting into a garage and booby trapping a bus.
This shouldn't be grounds for banning overall photography, this should be the grounds for improving overall garage security.
Quote from: WES on August 10, 2008, 01:16:54 PM
If you think about it, this should not be viewed as someone taking a picture in WMATA's divisions, this is a overall security threat. WMATA should take precautions to prevent any unauthorized person from getting in any of their divisions. I remember a few years ago, a couple of theives tried to cover up a robbery, went into the Southern Avenue Annex division, set fire to some of the Neoplans that were stored there to cover up said robbery. And yes this was before 911, but the fact that someone ventured onto WMATA property and noone caught this person even crossing their bus yard border should mean that cameras should be going up in all their divisions with someone monitoring all parts of the garage. If some idiot busfan can get into a garage to take pics, then what would prevent some idiot terrorist from getting into a garage and booby trapping a bus.
This shouldn't be grounds for banning overall photography, this should be the grounds for improving overall garage security.
Unfortunately, the security "experts" seem to think that banning photography will solve all security problems. Said experts should take a vacation to Israel on El Al and watch those security measures if they want to know what would really work. And while the Israeli guards would descend on anyone who tried taking a photo of the waiting El Al Boeing 747 or even had the plane in the background of the photo at the Rome airport while I was waiting to board a flight to Israel in April, they were engaging in other security efforts as well that I would say are effective and would work. If only the US could learn to use those measures.
Quote from: WES on August 04, 2008, 08:37:30 PM
Well, most of us don't take pics inside of metrobus divisions, me personally don't need to. I know my limitations and as I have stated elsewhere, I can take pics elsewhere instead of going into a garage or at the Pentagon to take a bus pic. If I don't feel comfortable taking pics, I won't and believe me I have taken thousands of pics. My guess is this person went inside of Bladensburg to take pics of the new NABIs that came in. I mean I don't care if I am the first one to take a pic of a bus, if the opportune time comes and I happen to see one rolling down the street, heck yea I will try to get a pic, but WILL not go into a garage to do it.
Same here....matter of fact, this should be the base standard for transitography (my word for transit photography). I almost ran into the same problem when I was in Atlanta in 2006, but that situation was easily cleared up (
seeing that they only banned transitography for commercial purposes, like brochures, only).
That being said, most transits here in Virginia actually don't mind photography in their garages, as long as you don't bother the employees doing their business. Example, both CTS and UTS (in Charlottesville) are very liberal when it comes to transitography. You can walk straight onto their garage facilities and take pictures like you'd do anywhere else. But then again, this is my experience, and seeing that my family is well known in Charlottesville (Tristan can attest to this), it's not seen as a big deal.
GRTC is the same....and HRT only gets suspicious if you take photos around military areas (ex: Norfolk Naval Station). Matter of fact, some GRTC drivers are even willing to stop the bus, pose IN FRONT of the bus and let you get some pics of them.
But to end...basically, the only doubt I have is whether that photo will come out like I want it to.
Quote from: Tristan on August 10, 2008, 12:34:17 AM
I was thinking that as well, John. If things become a big problem, I will make a wallet-sized card to carry around (and will post that here)...
Let's just sit this one out and see what happens...I bet not much will come from it.
That's an excellent idea. Perhaps we could do the same for other TA's that try to place photo bans as well, as that could help those that'll be traveling into their territory.
I came across one WMATA driver during my visit last month who put his hand up as I was photographing his Flxible at Rockville, but otherwise no one seemed to care that my son and I were taking pictures of buses and trains. I don't see how a garage security incident should be blown up to include a full photography ban.