Who remembers all the Orion I's in the DC area (with the similar TMC Citycruisers aside)? What fond memories did you have of all of them?
The hot sheet:
*Fairfax Connector 7700-7732 - 1985 BIA Orion I 01.507 (DDA 6V-71N / Allison MT-644) (delivered July 1985)
*Fairfax Connector 7800-7809 - 1988 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDC 6V-71N / Allison MT-647) (delivered December 1987-January 1988)
*Fairfax Connector 7733-7739 - 1988 BIA Orion I 01.507 (DDC 6V-92TA MUI / Allison HT-747) (delivered January 1988)
*Fairfax Connector 7740-7744 - 1989 BIA Orion I 01.507 (DDC 6V-92TA DDEC-II / Allison HT-748 ATEC) (delivered March 1989)
*Fairfax Connector 7745-7754 - 1990 BIA Orion I 01.507 (DDC 6V-92TA DDEC-II / Allison HT-748 ATEC) (delivered December 1990)
*Fairfax Connector 7755-7761 - 1991 BIA Orion I 01.507 (DDC 6V-92TA DDEC-II / Allison HT-748 ATEC) (delivered May 1991)
*DASH 1-17 - 1984 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDA 6V-71N / Allison MT-644) (delivered December 1983-January 1984)
*DASH 18-19 - 1986 BIA Orion I 01.507 (DDA 6V-92TA MUI / Allison HT-747) (delivered April 1986)
*DASH 20-33 - 1991-92 BIA Orion I 01.507 (Cummins L10 / Voith D863.3) (though they all look alike, these are in fact two different orders; this is why 29-33 are considered to be 1992 models) (20-28 delivered February-April 1991; 29-33 delivered October 1991)
*Montgomery County Ride-On 5257-5297 - 1984 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDA 6V-71N / Allison MT-644) (delivered July-September 1984)
*Montgomery County Ride-On 5500-5538, 5540-5545 - 1991-92 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDC 6V-92TA DDEC-II / Allison HT-748 ATEC) (5500-5526 are 1991 models; 5527-5538 and 5540-5545 are 1992 models; 5540-5545 have larger destination signs on their front endcaps) (5500-5526 delivered December 1990-July 1991; 5527-5538 delivered January-February 1992 and 5540-5545 delivered July 1992)
DDA = Detroit Diesel Allison
DDC = Detroit Diesel Corporation
~Ben
City of Fairfax CUE had them as well but I don't remember the numbers. I never liked the FFX Connector ones but I used to love the ones at Ride On. I don't have any specific memories of them, but I enjoyed riding them.
Quote from: Perry on March 05, 2009, 10:53:11 PM
City of Fairfax CUE had them as well but I don't remember the numbers. I never liked the FFX Connector ones but I used to love the ones at Ride On. I don't have any specific memories of them, but I enjoyed riding them.
The City of Fairfax CUE Orion I's were numbered in the 800s (they also had TMC Citycruisers).
For the record:
801-803 - 1982 TMC Citycruiser T-30 (DDA 6V-53T / Allison MT-643)
804-808 - 1986 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDA 6V-71N / Allison MT-647)
809 - 1987 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDA 6V-71N / Allison MT-647)
810-814 - 1990 BIA Orion I 01.502 (DDC 6V-92TA DDEC-II / Allison HT-748)
I rode on an ex-CUE Citycruiser when FFX Connector had a different contractor operating some of their up-county routes. When they had just taken over the 20A, they would use it. That thing ran pretty well on I-66.
Alexandria still has one. It has been assigned to the Fire Dept for use as a rehab unit.
Just for fun, here's a picture of an ex City-University Energysaver bus in DC:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/Bastranz/DC%20Area%20Transit/City%20University%20Energysaver/CUEOrion806-DClot-9-3-05.jpg)
Unfortunately, I never knew these buses while in service.
I saw one on Independence Ave long after they were out of revenue service (in fact, only a few years ago) that said "Special" and and was full of guys in business suits...doing some sort of charter in full CUE paint.
One thing I remember fondly about our (DASH) old 30' Orion Is is how hard it was for a short driver to change the side destination sign, it being above the door. That's a great location for a sign though!
Other than that, we donated an Orion I to Commonwealth Coach & Trolley Museum in Roanoke, VA - if you go there and ask nicely, they'll take you out on it I'm sure.
Quote from: Tristan on March 31, 2009, 12:59:43 PM
I saw one on Independence Ave long after they were out of revenue service (in fact, only a few years ago) that said "Special" and and was full of guys in business suits...doing some sort of charter in full CUE paint.
One thing I remember fondly about our (DASH) old 30' Orion Is is how hard it was for a short driver to change the side destination sign, it being above the door. That's a great location for a sign though!
Other than that, we donated an Orion I to Commonwealth Coach & Trolley Museum in Roanoke, VA - if you go there and ask nicely, they'll take you out on it I'm sure.
And while you are in Roanoke go visit the Railroad Museum. It is the final resting place of two great steam locomotives: N&W 611 (J Class) and N&W 1225 (A Class). BTW, speaking of strange uses for Orion I's, the Montgomery County Fire Department had a "pimped-out" version it obtained from Ride On. It was repainted in white with red stripes and even had emergency lights. It used to be parked at the Training Academy at Great Seneca Highway and Route 28 but I haven't seen it recently,
They (Public Service Training Academy- Fire Dept) also once had a TMC for that purpose. I wanna say former Ride-On #5146. DEFINATELY in the 514X series.
NOT 5140, 5142, 5147
Has anyone ever heard of the Allison MT-644/647/648 transmissions? Like the HT-74x series, the standard setup calls for torque converter lock-up starting with the 2nd gear, and these mid-range/heavy-duty crossover transmissions also share the same torque converters. This leads me to ask: when Fairfax Connector overhauled its very first Orion I's in the '90s, did they retain the original MT-644 transmissions while changing over the engines from 6V-71Ns to the DDEC 6V-92TAs?
For those of you who cannot tell an MT-644/7/8 from an MT-643, here's the lowdown on the specs:
MT-643, MT-653DR
Gear Ratios: 1st - 3.58:1, 2nd - 2.09:1, 3rd: 1.39:1, 4th - 1.0:1 (MT-653DR also has a very low 8.04:1 gear for starting on grades; this ratio is shifted manually)
Max hp: 250 (210 for transit/shuttle bus applications)
Max torque (lbf/ft): 640 (590 for transit/shuttle bus applications)
Torque converters: TC-350: 3.09:1, TC-370: 2.43:1, TC-380: 1.86:1
Torque converter lock-up: Gears 3-4 (gears 4-5 on MT-653DR)
MT-644, MT-647, MT-648
Gear Ratios: 1st: 3.58:1, 2nd: 2.09:1, 3rd: 1.39:1, 4th: 1.0:1
Max hp: 300 (250 for transit/shuttle bus applications)
Max torque (lbf/ft): 950 (780 for transit/shuttle bus applications)
Torque converters: TC-494: 1.92:1, TC-495: 2.21:1
Torque converter lock-up: Gears 2-4
MT-654CR
Gear Ratios: 1st: 4.17:1, 2nd: 2.21:1, 3rd: 1.66:1, 4th: 1.27, 5th: 1.0:1
Max hp: 300 (250 for transit/shuttle bus applications)
Max torque (lbf/ft): 950 (780 for transit/shuttle bus applications)
Torque converters: TC-495: 2.21:1, TC-497: 2.7:1
Torque converter lock-up: Gears 2-5
~Ben
Quote from: TransitGuru1981X on September 01, 2009, 09:48:44 PM
Has anyone ever heard of the Allison MT-644/647/648 transmissions?
I believe in an early thread it was stated that the Ride-On Gillig Phantoms had the MT-647s. If so, I definitely heard them. I think some of my old school district's Blue Bird All American FEs (don't know the year, but definitely from the 80's) had this transmission as well, based on the similarity of the sound.
That transmission sounds great, by the way.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on September 03, 2009, 03:14:21 PM
Quote from: TransitGuru1981X on September 01, 2009, 09:48:44 PM
Has anyone ever heard of the Allison MT-644/647/648 transmissions?
I believe in an early thread it was stated that the Ride-On Gillig Phantoms had the MT-647s. If so, I definitely heard them. I think some of my old school district's Blue Bird All American FEs (don't know the year, but definitely from the 80's) had this transmission as well, based on the similarity of the sound.
That transmission sounds great, by the way.
The MT-648, as everyone should know, was the lone electronic (ATEC) variation in the MT family.
The Blue Bird All-American FEs, would have used the MT-643 behind any of their Cat 3208 diesel engines to 250 hp. The RE versions had all the FE engines/transmissions available, but they also cataloged the 275 and 300 hp 3208 ATAAC engines and the Allison MT-647 transmission.
But yes, the MT-643 and 647 are relatives.
~Ben
I would also like to ask you this about the old Orion I's that RideOn had operated: did they ever do any experiments as to testing a 1984 Orion I (5257-5297) with a 6V-92TA DDEC and HTB-748 ATEC in place of the 6V-71N and MT-644?
And did they also once experiment with a 1991-92 Orion I (5500-5526, 5527-5538, 5540-5545) by dropping in a Voith D863.3 transmission in place of an Allison HTB-748? This is mentioned because many of the later Gilligs and Orions that RO operated had Voith transmissions installed.
~Ben
6V-92TA and, Allison HT-748...any better mix?
Quote from: TransitGuru1981X on September 07, 2009, 01:05:26 AM
And did they also once experiment with a 1991-92 Orion I (5500-5526, 5527-5538, 5540-5545) by dropping in a Voith D863.3 transmission in place of an Allison HTB-748? This is mentioned because many of the later Gilligs and Orions that RO operated had Voith transmissions installed.
~Ben
No, I'm quite sure they didn't. Of course, remember that the Allison HT-748 transmission was discontinued in 1993. Ride-On had to go to something else, so I guess they decided to try Voith for a while ('96 Phantoms and Orion Vs) as well as ZFs for the CNG 35ft Orion Vs and the ex-MTA Metro Ds.
Quote from: orionvii2678 on October 06, 2009, 01:23:16 AM
6V-92TA and, Allison HT-748...any better mix?
Not in my opinion! ^_^
Here is a pic of a TMC City Cruiser at the Silver Spring Station, back when these were NEW buses.
By the time I got to driving the buses in thie series (5109, 5111, 5127) they were beasts & had already been well used.
No Air-Cushioned Seat for the driver
Over sized steering wheel
A/C that blew warm air.
Rear Door step treadle/interlock that closed the rear doors very slowly.
That is a neat picture, got any more oldies? I'd love to see them.
Quote from: DCT S9Z4Z6 on October 28, 2009, 03:25:19 PM
Here is a pic of a TMC City Cruiser at the Silver Spring Station, back when these were NEW buses.
By the time I got to driving the buses in thie series (5109, 5111, 5127) they were beasts & had already been well used.
No Air-Cushioned Seat for the driver
Over sized steering wheel
A/C that blew warm air.
Rear Door step treadle/interlock that closed the rear doors very slowly.
Wow, nice picture! So that's what the Ride-On section of Silver Spring Station looked like back in the day? Plus, was that bus actually running on the 18?! When did they turn it into a "cutaway/minibus" route?
Quote from: WMAveteran on April 02, 2009, 02:04:45 AM
Quote from: Tristan on March 31, 2009, 12:59:43 PM
I saw one on Independence Ave long after they were out of revenue service (in fact, only a few years ago) that said "Special" and and was full of guys in business suits...doing some sort of charter in full CUE paint.
One thing I remember fondly about our (DASH) old 30' Orion Is is how hard it was for a short driver to change the side destination sign, it being above the door. That's a great location for a sign though!
Other than that, we donated an Orion I to Commonwealth Coach & Trolley Museum in Roanoke, VA - if you go there and ask nicely, they'll take you out on it I'm sure.
And while you are in Roanoke go visit the Railroad Museum. It is the final resting place of two great steam locomotives: N&W 611 (J Class) and N&W 1225 (A Class). BTW, speaking of strange uses for Orion I's, the Montgomery County Fire Department had a "pimped-out" version it obtained from Ride On. It was repainted in white with red stripes and even had emergency lights. It used to be parked at the Training Academy at Great Seneca Highway and Route 28 but I haven't seen it recently,
A note on the locomotives: The Class A you referred to is no. 1218, not 1225. Both were built right here in Roanoke and are the pride of the Virginia Museum of Transportation fleet. Occasionally, railfans are invited to the VMT to take photos of the engines on special occasions, including a recent night shoot which featured models acting as rail personnel in period uniforms. There is also a restored 1945 D.C. Transit PCC streetcar (fleet no. 1470) on display there as well.
I am the Curator of Commonwealth Coach and Trolley Museum, and was partly responsible for obtaining DASH Orion I no. 28 for our fleet (thanks again to Tristan for the tip, and Sandy for the gift). It is one of our main buses in our operating fleet, and we recently used it on an excursion to Blacksburg to have dinner with our New River Valley volunteers as it performs well at highway speeds.
Last but not least, come to Roanoke any time. We'll be glad to take you for a spin with advance notice.