Temporairy or permanent? I know this question is kinda dumb but just asking. I'm wondering if Landover has some hidden CNG fuel shop or something somewhere...
Temporary for the inauguration, I think they should be back at Bladensburg now. Landover does not have a CNG fueling facility.
They will be back to bladensburg this weekend.
now 5401-5402 will be at FourMile 4 testing purpuses.
Quote from: wmata employee on January 23, 2009, 12:10:39 PM
They will be back to bladensburg this weekend.
now 5401-5402 will be at FourMile 4 testing purpuses.
Testing purposes as in they will not be on the 5A anymore or what?
That is the test.
This pic was from yesterday:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd19/bjb91/S7300328.jpg)
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 23, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
100% agreed. I've been wondering why Landover didn't get 6206-6217. That's just stupid.
Why does Landover need the suburban interior New Flyers if they already have enough Orion Vs for B30 service? Highway mileage is better than city mileage on any vehicle. I understand from a transit fan's point of view that you'd like to see something different on the B30. However, if they chose to send the 6200s to Landover for no good reason, then that would be stupid.
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 23, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times. And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans.
Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it. Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Agreed. When Montgomery rec'd their D40LFRs, I was thinking that their remaining Orion V suburbans would get transferred out. It is a waste as their buses spend lots of time on local routes.
Isn't possible that some of the new New Flyer BRTs that go to Landover will be suburbans with luggage racks like the 6200s? Likewise for Montgomery and West Ox?
The T2 gets suburban New Flyers fairly often and they do fine there.
Orion Vs on the B30 make more sense in my opinion since the space lost from the on board luggage racks is fairly small when compared to what would be lost on a low floor bus. Suitcases on the 5A block the aisles on the Orion VIIs and make boarding and alighting along the way out to Dulles very difficult, especially if you want to get off the bus at an intermediate stop such as Tysons or Herndon-Monroe.
Quote from: OrionFlyer on January 24, 2009, 09:45:36 AM
Isn't possible that some of the new New Flyer BRTs that go to Landover will be suburbans with luggage racks like the 6200s? Likewise for Montgomery and West Ox?
Yes it's possible, but WMATA doesn't need more suburbans, so it's not probable. They never cease to
annoy aggravate amaze me so who knows what's coming for sure?
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...
Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity. Why is that "needed" in your opinion?
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...
Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity. Why is that "needed" in your opinion?
Comfort.
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...
Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity. Why is that "needed" in your opinion?
Comfort.
Comfortable, yes. Is it the most practical? Absolutely not. You have to think about what is the best decision for the majority. Just think about one of those buses doing a Z8 or better yet, a rush hour C2/C4 trip. You're not going to get as many people in as you would on a bus with a standard transit interior.
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 23, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times. And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans.
Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it. Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.
I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...
Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity. Why is that "needed" in your opinion?
Comfort.
Cushioning like those on the 4300s or 2100s or vandal resistant seating in a transit configuration seems comfortable enoguh to me. Most bus trips aren't so long, so it is rare that one begins to get uncomfortable before the trip is almost over.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 07:04:02 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:36:03 PM
My only question is why WMATA has bought so many surburbans in the first place. Now the FMR surburbans I can understand, but getting D40LFR surburbans was sort of a waste of money.
Now if the surburbans were to be truly used for express routes then those last batch of D40LFRs shouldn't have been surburbans. I know Montgomery has the J5,7,9 and also the Z11,13, but what other surburban routes do they run, honestly I might not have gotten all of them.
Landover MAY have a few more "express" routes than Montgomery, in that they have the B30, 87,88, B29, B31 and I wouldn't really count the B21,22 as express routes, just routes that spend a significant amount of time on the highway. With that said I still don't understand the need to have some of the D40LFRs as surburbans. Also the said surburbans don't even run on surburban style routes most of the time.
Now the B30 thing is just more service at certain times(I have heard the weekends it gets packed) and in that sense that is where service is needed, when the money is available to provide such service.......or PG and/or Anne Arundel County and Maryland pony up more money for that increased service.
All in all the surburbans are where they are because WMATA felt that where they are there was a need for them there.
I don't think it was a waste of money. I think we need MORE suburbans. I prefer those seats over the regular ones anyday. Plus, it probably would attract more riders. About the service thing, why can't the PG Gov't stop being such assholes and cough up more dough for increased service? Stupid, just stupid...
Suburban style buses often have fewer seats and lower overall capacity. Why is that "needed" in your opinion?
Comfort.
Cushioning like those on the 4300s or 2100s or vandal resistant seating in a transit configuration seems comfortable enoguh to me. Most bus trips aren't so long, so it is rare that one begins to get uncomfortable before the trip is almost over.
Do you guys always have to ruin the moment? ;D
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 23, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times. And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans.
Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it. Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.
I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.
Haven't we had the discussion about artics versus standard buses already? If the F4 were to run artics, you would probably see LONGER headways. Something tells me that isn't what you really want.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 07:05:26 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 23, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times. And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans.
Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it. Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.
I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.
Haven't we had the discussion about artics versus standard buses already? If the F4 were to run artics, you would probably see LONGER headways. Something tells me that isn't what you really want.
You would also see more seats. Try being on an F4. Especially with Flx's. Even with 40ft buses, the F4 can be slow due to overcrowding. I don't want that either but we have to deal with it.
Speaking of overcrowding, the 30s gets quite a load coming from Georgetown up to Tenleytown and each 31 32 and 36 that passes by has a full load on each bus and makes almost stop after stop. I don't know what the combined headways are for the 30s on Saturday on the Wisconsin core but there's quite a bulk of folks (mostly AU kids) heading uptown.
Here is my theory on when artics should be used. In the F4's case, again it is just a case of increased service. This route should run at least every 10 minutes, every 5 minutes from PG Plaza to New Carrollton. During non rush hour, the F4 should run every 20 minutes, along with later service in the evenings till at least 12am.
Artics should been put on routes that have a frequency of 10 minutes or less, definitely around 5 minutes. When the F4 reaches in that range then artics should be used on that route, but not right now. The only other problem is that when artics are used, the frequency get decreased, and I don't get the reason. If said route runs every 5 minutes, have a capacity of 60 people on each run, then when the changeover to artics happen, it should stay at every 5 minutes. Your average artic holds around 60 people sitting, and when that gets the 60 people that was on the 40fter, it still has space to hold more passengers just in case more people want to ride.
Most PG routes don't need artics, just an increase in service. Even if WMATA got more artics, the priorities would be the Q2, Ss, some Zs, some 50 runs and the Y8(wait, don't they have artics on it alreeeee.........nevermind).
Quote from: WES on January 24, 2009, 07:24:20 PM
Here is my theory on when artics should be used. In the F4's case, again it is just a case of increased service. This route should run at least every 10 minutes, every 5 minutes from PG Plaza to New Carrollton. During non rush hour, the F4 should run every 20 minutes, along with later service in the evenings till at least 12am.
Artics should been put on routes that have a frequency of 10 minutes or less, definitely around 5 minutes. When the F4 reaches in that range then artics should be used on that route, but not right now. The only other problem is that when artics are used, the frequency get decreased, and I don't get the reason. If said route runs every 5 minutes, have a capacity of 60 people on each run, then when the changeover to artics happen, it should stay at every 5 minutes. Your average artic holds around 60 people sitting, and when that gets the 60 people that was on the artic, it still has space to hold more passengers just in case more people want to ride.
Most PG routes don't need artics, just an increase in service. Even if WMATA got more artics, the priorities would be the Q2, Ss, some Zs, some 50 runs and the Y8(wait, don't they have artics on it alreeeee.........nevermind).
The only time you'll see some kind of 5 to 10 minute service in the county is with Shuttle-UM Route 104. Anything else is 15 minutes or more. We need a damn miracle here in PG.
Quote from: WES on January 24, 2009, 07:24:20 PM
Here is my theory on when artics should be used. In the F4's case, again it is just a case of increased service. This route should run at least every 10 minutes, every 5 minutes from PG Plaza to New Carrollton. During non rush hour, the F4 should run every 20 minutes, along with later service in the evenings till at least 12am.
Artics should been put on routes that have a frequency of 10 minutes or less, definitely around 5 minutes. When the F4 reaches in that range then artics should be used on that route, but not right now. The only other problem is that when artics are used, the frequency get decreased, and I don't get the reason. If said route runs every 5 minutes, have a capacity of 60 people on each run, then when the changeover to artics happen, it should stay at every 5 minutes. Your average artic holds around 60 people sitting, and when that gets the 60 people that was on the 40fter, it still has space to hold more passengers just in case more people want to ride.
Most PG routes don't need artics, just an increase in service. Even if WMATA got more artics, the priorities would be the Q2, Ss, some Zs, some 50 runs and the Y8(wait, don't they have artics on it alreeeee.........nevermind).
Most TAs use artics as a way to cut costs, not to expand capacity. For example, in New York, an all articulated route only has 3 buses for every 4 standard buses that would operate on that route if that route were assigned standard buses instead. Sometimes however, making a route all articulated and lengthening headways on that route can result in service increases somewhere else in the system, as the standard buses get reassigned, but I can't think of any TA that actively does this.
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 07:08:42 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 24, 2009, 07:05:26 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on January 24, 2009, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 23, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: WES on January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
All of those people have to get back to the airport. It's not like everyone went back Wednesday. They'll probably move them out by next week.
There are still some stragglers from Inauguration. Maybe sometime in the future Metro can consider running artics full time instead of just running them as extras plus those Orions need to be elsewhere. It's been past time for something else on that line other than 4391-4395. Those buses have packed on alot of highway mileage. I still say transfer 5 6200 high backs to Landover. There's no real reason why Montgomery needs all 12.
It is not artics they need, just more service at certain times. And there have been other buses on the B30, they just weren't surburbans.
Lastly WMATA isn't going to change buses on the B30 because we want to see something different on it. Just deal with whatever is on it, at least there is bus service on that route to begin with.
I do agree about artics not being needed, but it would be good to see some here and there. The F4 is another story though. They NEED artics on the F4.
Haven't we had the discussion about artics versus standard buses already? If the F4 were to run artics, you would probably see LONGER headways. Something tells me that isn't what you really want.
You would also see more seats. Try being on an F4. Especially with Flx's. Even with 40ft buses, the F4 can be slow due to overcrowding. I don't want that either but we have to deal with it.
Again, capacity wouldn't be changed significantly. And your fare only entitles you to a ride, not to a seat. Artics would not be an improvement on the F4 and could be better used elsewhere.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on January 24, 2009, 07:20:36 PM
Speaking of overcrowding, the 30s gets quite a load coming from Georgetown up to Tenleytown and each 31 32 and 36 that passes by has a full load on each bus and makes almost stop after stop. I don't know what the combined headways are for the 30s on Saturday on the Wisconsin core but there's quite a bulk of folks (mostly AU kids) heading uptown.
This has been the case for years and years. The combined headways on the even 30s are probably about 10 minutes on Saturday afternoons according to the schedule, but the schedule doesn't always conform to reality. Limited stop service on Wisconsin Avenue 7 days a week would be helpful. This, however, is not a place where artics would be feasible, since no depot that can handle artics is within reasonable deadhead distance of the routes in question.
I disagree on this artic situation, from a here-and-now standpoint. Assuming that there is no increase in operating funds, put tics out there if people are getting left behind. Grants for Capital are easier to come by via FTA, plus Jack B. doesn't mind spending some one-time money on bling bling, but recurring Operating expenditures mean pulling teeth. If we can keep him in his ways, maybe we can get some capacity if not more service.
I tend to agree that the F4 could use Artics under existing headways as a way to expand capacity on that route. Considering the length of trips people take on that route, and that people do get left behind by full buses, it really does need to be improved. Standing is fine for 15 minutes or so, but expecting folks to stand 30 to 45 minutes on their fare is asking a bit much.
Artics are versatile in how they can be used, and different agencies approach them differently. SEPTA introduced Artics on routes like the #33 to increase capacity. Other agencies have used them to widen headways and reduce labor costs in operation, allowing them to either retain more marginal services or introduce services to new areas. The latter is more of an indirect approach looking at the overall bottom line of the system.
Quote from: btconet on January 27, 2009, 08:20:20 AM
I tend to agree that the F4 could use Artics under existing headways as a way to expand capacity on that route. Considering the length of trips people take on that route, and that people do get left behind by full buses, it really does need to be improved. Standing is fine for 15 minutes or so, but expecting folks to stand 30 to 45 minutes on their fare is asking a bit much.
Artics are versatile in how they can be used, and different agencies approach them differently. SEPTA introduced Artics on routes like the #33 to increase capacity. Other agencies have used them to widen headways and reduce labor costs in operation, allowing them to either retain more marginal services or introduce services to new areas. The latter is more of an indirect approach looking at the overall bottom line of the system.
Thank you at least someone agrees with me. You can't expect to increase service with 40 footers on the F4 and get some improvements with capacity. It's not going to change. If you rode the F4 as much as I did, you'll believe me when I say they NEED artics on the F4.
I've ridden the F4 before....during the weekday midday...on an Orion VI. I won't do that again, particularly coming into town with multiple bags to deal with.
I think the F4 is past the point of needing articulated buses. It needs more frequent service as well, and that needs to be looked into immediately.
Either that or run a heck of a lot more off-peak F6s.
It wouldn't be a bad idea, in my opinion, to keep some of the decrepit American Ikaruses and send them over to Landover for a little while, if not to just test them out. The CNG NABIs seemed to do well with the B30. Could the American Ikaruses handle a few more years?
Seeing how the MAN artics lasted 17-18 years, isolating 10-15 436's and exiling them to Landover would be a good move (I take it they don't have the same electrical problems as the 9500's in Baltimore). When they must be retired, I'd propose and extra artic order to help shore up supplies at Bladensburg/Montgomery/Northern and maybe then send some of the Neoplans to Landover.
I live around were the F4 goes i agree with you guys we do need artics i was waitning for an F4 to new carrolton that was packed so i waited for the next it was paccked third one was packed so i got tired and rode TheBus
and it will b e hard making the tight turns tho
My experience with the F4 is the same as you guys. Having the older NABI's at Landover is not such a bad idea. Maybe they can be on the P12 too.
Quote from: DE40LFR on January 29, 2009, 10:02:21 AM
I live around were the F4 goes i agree with you guys we do need artics i was waitning for an F4 to new carrolton that was packed so i waited for the next it was paccked third one was packed so i got tired and rode TheBus
and it will b e hard making the tight turns tho
Artics have a smaller turning radius than standard sized buses. Tight turns aren't a problem.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 29, 2009, 03:27:14 PM
Quote from: DE40LFR on January 29, 2009, 10:02:21 AM
I live around were the F4 goes i agree with you guys we do need artics i was waitning for an F4 to new carrolton that was packed so i waited for the next it was paccked third one was packed so i got tired and rode TheBus
and it will b e hard making the tight turns tho
Artics have a smaller turning radius than standard sized buses. Tight turns aren't a problem.
This is typically the case, but the American Ikarus 436s seem to have a worse turning radius. Someone pointed out that they appear to have the same wheelbase as a 40ft Model 416.
Let me add something I didn't put the first time. If a T/A doesn't have the money to expand a route then, yes putting artics with crush load should happen.
With that said having to choose between an artic on a route running every 15 minutes, or 2, 40 footers running on that same route running every 7 minutes I would choose the the 7 minute frequency and doing the math you would be adding around 10 more seats, 40 more seats per hour. In the F4's case if the money was there I would rather see a 5-8 minute frequency with 40 footers than maybe(and remember WMATA could do this), every 15-20 rush, with an artic. If you don't understand look what happened when they put artics on the Y8............nevermind. With an artic, though the frequency might be 10 to 15 minutes.
We have said over and over again that WMATA needs to have more artics, and they should keep at least a few of the better running artics and put them where they need them, be it running from Landover on the F4, P12, or Northern for the S2,4, 52,54.
I would even say if it is possible and doesn't violate any federal rules(I don't have knowledge about Federal rules) but even getting some good used artics, till they can replace those with new artics.
You look at some other T/As and wonder why WMATA hasn't increased their artic fleet.
1)NYCTA didn't have artics and all of a sudden they have one of the largest artics fleet in the country
2)Didn't Philly increase their artic fleet when they replaced their Volvos
3)LAMTA had them, got rid of them and then got them again and probably got more than they did the first time.
4)And Chicago signed, if I am correct, is about to get 900 artics, even replacing some of the NABIs they have which number over 200.
5)Lastly if I am correct isn't even B-more keeping some artics when they get the new ones?
So if all of these T/As are expanding artics, why can't WMATA, you can't solve everything with a 40 footer.
Quote from: WES on January 29, 2009, 10:42:44 PM
Let me add something I didn't put the first time. If a T/A doesn't have the money to expand a route then, yes putting artics with crush load should happen.
With that said having to choose between an artic on a route running every 15 minutes, or 2, 40 footers running on that same route running every 7 minutes I would choose the the 7 minute frequency and doing the math you would be adding around 10 more seats, 40 more seats per hour. In the F4's case if the money was there I would rather see a 5-8 minute frequency with 40 footers than maybe(and remember WMATA could do this), every 15-20 rush, with an artic. If you don't understand look what happened when they put artics on the Y8............nevermind. With an artic, though the frequency might be 10 to 15 minutes.
We have said over and over again that WMATA needs to have more artics, and they should keep at least a few of the better running artics and put them where they need them, be it running from Landover on the F4, P12, or Northern for the S2,4, 52,54.
I would even say if it is possible and doesn't violate any federal rules(I don't have knowledge about Federal rules) but even getting some good used artics, till they can replace those with new artics.
You look at some other T/As and wonder why WMATA hasn't increased their artic fleet.
1)NYCTA didn't have artics and all of a sudden they have one of the largest artics fleet in the country
2)Didn't Philly increase their artic fleet when they replaced their Volvos
3)LAMTA had them, got rid of them and then got them again and probably got more than they did the first time.
4)And Chicago signed, if I am correct, is about to get 900 artics, even replacing some of the NABIs they have which number over 200.
5)Lastly if I am correct isn't even B-more keeping some artics when they get the new ones?
So if all of these T/As are expanding artics, why can't WMATA, you can't solve everything with a 40 footer.
I may be wrong, but I think the reason WMATA keeps replacing its artics at a one to one ratio is because the number of facilities that can handle artics is limited, and therefore, expanding the fleet is not possible. I'm also aware that some divisions have extra capacity, including Montgomery and Landover, which are able to operate artics, but perhaps there are some other shifts that would need to occur for this to happen that would screw things up.
Do y'all know which facilities are able to maintain articulated buses? In terms of SEPTA, only Midvale and Allegheny were able to maintain them...I dunno how the third depot was suddenly able to maintain them for service on route 14.
To answer WES's question, SEPTA more than tripled it's fleet of artics with the Neoplan AN460 order. Now as they are replacing vehicles, they are wondering if more buses are needed.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 02, 2009, 10:08:50 AM
Do y'all know which facilities are able to maintain articulated buses? In terms of SEPTA, only Midvale and Allegheny were able to maintain them...I dunno how the third depot was suddenly able to maintain them for service on route 14.
If memory serves me correctly:
Northern
Bladensburg
Montgomery
Four Mile Run
Landover