I have to tel you I really like the Orion VI. Low floor, you can see out the front window. None of that stadium seating. Sure it looks like a shoe box but its cute.
I really hate the Orion VIIs. No improvement on the VI. You can't see out the front, stadium seating in the rear and I am also told that they are not holding up well.
I guess the top five current metrobuses are:
1) '90 Metro B
2)C40LF-John Deere engined
3)Orion VI
4)C40LF-C8.3G-Westport engined
5)Neoplan AN460
Top five of all time:
1)GM New Look-8Vs
2)GM New Look-6Vs
3)'86-'87 Metro B
4)Flx New Look-8V
5)90' Flx Metro B
I like the Orion VI, those puppies have speed and if you were fortunate to have gotten one a highway route with a "good" driver, you would see how fast these buses were.
The Orion VIIs, look weird, especially from the sides. The next gens are even worst looking--all the way around. Orion should have done with the Orion VI that Nova did to the LFS, making it a low entry bus from a complete low floor bus, instead of redoing the whole model. Whether that would have been functional or not is another thing.
Favorite 4 (in no order):
-Orion V (21-2200s and 42-4400s) (YES I SAID 21-2200s!)
-Orion VII
-New Flyer (all types)
-Flxible Metro
Most hated 3 (in no order):
-Orion VI
-Orion V (9600s)
-Orion II
What I wish they had/kept (stealing MetroLiner's idea):
-All the retired Metro-B's
-New Flyer D40LF's with DD50 engines (like BCT's New Flyers...WHICH ARE FREAKIN GONE)
-Gillig Advantages (like Ride-On's newest ones, and the 30' ones as well) - preferrably hybrids
-MAN artics (I just wanted to see them)
-Orion VII diesel (same engines as some of BCT's older Gilligs (Cummins ISM or ISL with unknown transmission))
My favorites (no order)
New Flyer C40lfr
New Flyer D40lfr
New Flyer DE40lf
New Flyer DE40lfr
Orion VII
Orion VI
Flxible Metro D, E
1995 NABI's
Most Hated
Orion V (I'm tired of seeing these things. I can wait until they're out of here. Unfortunately that won't happen for a long time)
Flxible Metro B
New Flyer C40lf
My favorites:
The GMC RTS's (will always miss 'em)
The OLD fleet of Metro B's (especially bus #8854)
The Metro D's and E's (so smooth running, and most have their own unique sound)
C40LFs (all of them, those are the strongest running buses in D.C. IMO)
Orion VI (and they're speedy)
Orion VII's (the 30-footers and the John Deere set)
All them Neoplan artics, and the NABI 60-BRTs
The Least liked:
Orion V's (the 2100s SUCK, except #2198)
Orion VII's (the Cummins set, except the 30's)
ANY of the C/D/DE-40LFR models (because of the "European" styling; I'm SICK of it!!)
ICK-arus Model 436's (I wish they didn't lose their ZF's, or at least got a B500R instead)
The CURRENT fleet of Metro B's
What I WISH they had/kept:
The OLD fleet of Metro B's
NEWER NABI Model 436's or perhaps some 416's (original front end)
TMC or NovaBus RTS's
Orion VII CNG's with Allison B400R transmission
Orion VII Diesels
Orion VI's with Cummins ISM engines
My favorite Metrobus is the GM RTS (even though the original models were slow, had non-opening windows and frequently non-functioning A/C). The worst Metrobus was the AM General although they had great windows. Prior to Metro my favorite DC Transit bus was the GM Suburban that appears on my avatar. Unfortunately these busses were not passed on to Metro because DC Transit kept them for private charter services after the Metro takeover.
I gotta agree with Antonzilla, the Orion VI is at least my favorite current Orion model. I also am fond of the II because of what it is - a HIGH QUALITY small bus. If you look at Ride On, Howard Transit, or Connect-a-Ride and their horrible cutaways, you'll see the value of the ugly duckling.
I also have to admit that the Metro-Ds are not my favorite, especially the DD50-powered stock. They're ragged out - many in worse shape than the Metro-Bs, and the DD50s are ragged out and too quiet to enjoy.
I'm also no big Orion fan, but I really like WMATA Orion VIs. Those buses are really fast.
Others favorites are:
Flxible Metro E (especially the soft seaters)
NFI DE40LF
C40LF
Honorable mention goes to the Metro D, C40LFR, D40LFR, DE40LFR and NABI 436.
Cannot stand the '00 Orion V (2100-2231) and the '92 Orion V (9600) after they were repowered.
I tolerate the '97/'98 Orion Vs.
All the Flxibles thats all i gota say
:-\
Quote from: Tristan on December 06, 2008, 07:18:22 PM
I gotta agree with Antonzilla, the Orion VI is at least my favorite current Orion model. I also am fond of the II because of what it is - a HIGH QUALITY small bus. If you look at Ride On, Howard Transit, or Connect-a-Ride and their horrible cutaways, you'll see the value of the ugly duckling.
I also have to admit that the Metro-Ds are not my favorite, especially the DD50-powered stock. They're ragged out - many in worse shape than the Metro-Bs, and the DD50s are ragged out and too quiet to enjoy.
I agree. The VI sucks and the II is a good high quality, heavy duty midi. Maybe Metro should sell them to Howie's truck when the DE37LFAs come in. At least they'll have something durable.
As for the Metro Ds, there are a few DD50s that whistle and 9831 is starting to take on its Ride On Gillig 5380s.
Another thing. I don't get why alot of people don't like the 2100s. It's been the thing on my mind since 2006.
I was saying that the Orion VIs are, if nothing else, my current favorite Orion model. I said I agreed with Antonzilla who said he liked them as well.
We've discussed our disdain for the 2100s in prior threads. They're just nothing to like, just like the Brand X Generic bus, in looks and in sound. The best of them sound like nothing more complex than a lawn mower; the worst of them are much worse than that...and there's nothing outstanding about them to offset their plainness.
Stop hating on the VI's >:( there my favorite Orion bus
Quote from: Tristan on December 07, 2008, 01:49:28 AM
I was saying that the Orion VIs are, if nothing else, my current favorite Orion model. I said I agreed with Antonzilla who said he liked them as well.
We've discussed our disdain for the 2100s in prior threads. They're just nothing to like, just like the Brand X Generic bus, in looks and in sound. The best of them sound like nothing more complex than a lawn mower; the worst of them are much worse than that...and there's nothing outstanding about them to offset their plainness.
Meh. The 9600s were worse than the 2100s. I'm glad those POSes are off the fleet. As for my favs and dislikes
Favs
Anything New Flyer
Anything Flx
NABI 60BRTs
Dislikes
Orion VIs
Orion VIIs (cheaply made)
Neo AN460s
*These remind me of the crappily made AN440LFs Bmore has and even these have gone thru hell more than any bus with over 4 years of service.
NABI 436 tics
*Never ever put a Voith tranny on a tic. OMG these buses are the slowest on the fleet (and these were reman Voiths I think). I'm glad the 60BRTs came with Allisons.
Thomas SLF230s
*Aluminium bodies. Poor suspension. Just all around bad riding. They remind me of the SLF230s that MTA had, DUH BUS has now, and they aren't the best buses that were ever made. Swap em for some ice cream trucks.
Favorite (Not in any order whatsoever):
ALL Flxibles (except those horrid 9800 series ones) but my favorite were the 8000 series Bs
Orion VII (All of them)
Orion V (2100 series and the suburban seated ones)
C40LFR (these things are beast)
NABI 60-BRT
NABI 60-SFW
Least Favorite:
30 foot Orion V (I swear WMATA needs to get rid of these)
Orion V 4200 and 4300 I get tired of these easily
Detroit Deisel 9800 series Ds (They sound horrible like a messed up Metro-E)
Quote from: MetroLinerXLZ on December 06, 2008, 12:44:20 AM
My favorites:
The GMC RTS's (will always miss 'em)
The OLD fleet of Metro B's (especially bus #8854)
The Metro D's and E's (so smooth running, and most have their own unique sound)
C40LFs (all of them, those are the strongest running buses in D.C. IMO)
Orion VI (and they're speedy)
Orion VII's (the 30-footers and the John Deere set)
All them Neoplan artics, and the NABI 60-BRTs
The Least liked:
Orion V's (the 2100s SUCK, except #2198)
Orion VII's (the Cummins set, except the 30's)
ANY of the C/D/DE-40LFR models (because of the "European" styling; I'm SICK of it!!)
ICK-arus Model 436's (I wish they didn't lose their ZF's, or at least got a B500R instead)
The CURRENT fleet of Metro B's
What I WISH they had/kept:
The OLD fleet of Metro B's
NEWER NABI Model 436's or perhaps some 416's (original front end)
TMC or NovaBus RTS's
Orion VII CNG's with Allison B400R transmission
Orion VII Diesels
Orion VI's with Cummins ISM engines
1. What's wrong with the current fleet of Bs?
2. Cummins Orion VII (2500-2600s) DO NOT suck.
3. The 2100 series DO NOT suck.
4. Deisel Orion VIIs are HORRIBLE!
5. The NABI 60-SFW is one of the best older buses they have.
6. ZFs SUCK!
Correction, the 2100s and the VIIs are awful (again, try riding VIIs every day and telling me you still like them).
Quote from: Tristan on December 08, 2008, 07:41:49 PM
Correction, the 2100s and the VIIs are awful (again, try riding VIIs every day and telling me you still like them).
I love the VIIs but it would suck to ride them everyday. Tristan, when you first heard them, what did you think about the way they sounded? And I'm not changing my mind about the 2100s. They are awesome buses. Better than the non-suburban 40 ft Orion Vs in my opinion.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 08, 2008, 11:10:52 AM
6. ZFs SUCK!
Dude, ZFs are awesome. It's just strange how they manage to fail miserably in the DC area though.
Up in the Philly area, NJT loves them and SEPTA would continue to love them if they didn't go hybrid.
I agree with Tristan. WMATA's Orion VIIs are just dreadful. So bland for an Orion VII, and so sluggish at that!
Ride On's are much better, although the ZF series lurch quite a bit...For me, my absolute favorites are the 93/9400 Metro Bs. I've always loved those buses ever since I was a wee child.
Otherwise, my favorites are:
All of the Flxibles WMATA ran, including the Ds (why does everyone hate them?) and especially the Es (which always had a subtle charm).
The New Flyer D40LFRs - the ONLY New Flyers I don't mind riding in the DC area.
The Orion VIs - just nice, comfy buses.
The NABI 60-BRTs - fast, smooth, and stylish!
I'm not particularly fond of:
The 2100s: every time I rode the K6, they would appear. I got sick of them rather quickly. I think now they just deteriorated even further, and with those LED signs, it's harder for me to tell if it's on of them so I can run away! The 4300s are okay, though. Still blandish, but really fast and strong.
The Orion IIs - Sorry Tristan, they may be strong minibuses, but they are still hideous and unappealing. Everything is thrown every which way for it to fit inside. I do, however, wish to have a farewell ride on these...not everyday you can ride an Orion II.
The SLFs - I never met an SLF I liked anyway - cheap buses, contrary to the Dennis Darts they are based off of.
New Flyer C40LFRs - yes, they look great and have nice seats, but those are soooo sluggish it's ridiculous. And the fact that they run in DC only makes the issue a lot worse.
I'm indifferent on the Neo artics. Yeah, they are fast with the DD60, but are also bland because of it - none of the good sounds found in a DD50 Neo artic. However, they are comfy as Neos outside of the wonderful "feel the road" suspension. I'm overdue for a ride on one of them, anyway. Is it just me or does it seem like they are running less artics on the 70?
Quote from: Tritransit Area on December 09, 2008, 08:57:05 PM
I agree with Tristan. WMATA's Orion VIIs are just dreadful. So bland for an Orion VII, and so sluggish at that!
Ride On's are much better, although the ZF series lurch quite a bit...For me, my absolute favorites are the 93/9400 Metro Bs. I've always loved those buses ever since I was a wee child.
Otherwise, my favorites are:
All of the Flxibles WMATA ran, including the Ds (why does everyone hate them?) and especially the Es (which always had a subtle charm).
The New Flyer D40LFRs - the ONLY New Flyers I don't mind riding in the DC area.
The Orion VIs - just nice, comfy buses.
The NABI 60-BRTs - fast, smooth, and stylish!
I'm not particularly fond of:
The 2100s: every time I rode the K6, they would appear. I got sick of them rather quickly. I think now they just deteriorated even further, and with those LED signs, it's harder for me to tell if it's on of them so I can run away! The 4300s are okay, though. Still blandish, but really fast and strong.
The Orion IIs - Sorry Tristan, they may be strong minibuses, but they are still hideous and unappealing. Everything is thrown every which way for it to fit inside. I do, however, wish to have a farewell ride on these...not everyday you can ride an Orion II.
The SLFs - I never met an SLF I liked anyway - cheap buses, contrary to the Dennis Darts they are based off of.
New Flyer C40LFRs - yes, they look great and have nice seats, but those are soooo sluggish it's ridiculous. And the fact that they run in DC only makes the issue a lot worse.
I'm indifferent on the Neo artics. Yeah, they are fast with the DD60, but are also bland because of it - none of the good sounds found in a DD50 Neo artic. However, they are comfy as Neos outside of the wonderful "feel the road" suspension. I'm overdue for a ride on one of them, anyway. Is it just me or does it seem like they are running less artics on the 70?
What do you mean Ride-On's Orion VIIs are better? No offense but Ride-On's VIIs are even worse. The C40LFRs are great buses what do you have against them? I don't hate the Ds I just hate the sound of the DD ones. They sound HORRIBLE. Man you have little taste in buses. :P
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 09:50:36 AM
What do you mean Ride-On's Orion VIIs are better? No offense but Ride-On's VIIs are even worse.
I think Ride On's Orion VII are WAAAYYYY better then WMATA's. Ride On's at least have some personality and three different variations (power train/tranny) of the O7 vs WMATA's bland/slow/plain O7's. But this is all personal opinions, so leave it at that.
Quote from: rideonrulez on December 10, 2008, 01:18:40 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 09:50:36 AM
What do you mean Ride-On's Orion VIIs are better? No offense but Ride-On's VIIs are even worse.
I think Ride On's Orion VII are WAAAYYYY better then WMATA's. Ride On's at least have some personality and three different variations (power train/tranny) of the O7 vs WMATA's bland/slow/plain O7's. But this is all personal opinions, so leave it at that.
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Just because they are buses doesn't mean they are slow. It all on how the buses are governed (especially with electronic controls). You'd be lucky to get a bus that can get above 55. Why have the speedometer go up to 90 when most of them just top off around 55 or 59.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Just because they are buses doesn't mean they are slow. It all on how the buses are governed (especially with electronic controls). You'd be lucky to get a bus that can get above 55. Why have the speedometer go up to 90 when most of them just top off around 55 or 59.
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
Aside from being slow, they ride rough, you can't see out the front, stadium seating oh and that wom wom woom sound they make
Quote from: Antozilla on December 10, 2008, 01:31:21 PM
Aside from being slow, they ride rough, you can't see out the front, stadium seating oh and that wom wom woom sound they make
Now that's the sound I love. The brake release sound. That sound is the reason I love Orion VIIs. ;D
I love the current Metro B's with the Cummins L-10 engines. The D's are pretty nice too, though they sound a bit less "trucky." I'm just kind of so-so on the E's.
I guess I don't pay attention to numbers enough, but I really don't notice a vast difference between the 2100s and the 4300s. I'm not giddy about either, though I do kind of like the 3900's for their novelty.
I wish I could like the Orion VI's better than I do, but the seating arrangement in the back is just a bit too clumsy. Always someone propped out across the back seats or propped up on the rear wheel "daring" you to enter "their" space. The whole thing feels claustrophobic compared to a Nova LFS that has a similar arrangement.
I pay little mind to the New Flyers since they'll be around a while, though I do like the rear windows. The VII's - yawn...
Honestly, nothing in the satellite agencies really does it for me either (not a knock, as they all have decent stuff - but my tastes tend toward the "interesting"). About the closest thing are the RTS's at FFX for their novelty, but the catch is having to ride FFX to ride one!
Quote from: btconet on December 10, 2008, 01:34:25 PM
I love the current Metro B's with the Cummins L-10 engines. The D's are pretty nice too, though they sound a bit less "trucky." I'm just kind of so-so on the E's.
I guess I don't pay attention to numbers enough, but I really don't notice a vast difference between the 2100s and the 4300s. I'm not giddy about either, though I do kind of like the 3900's for their novelty.
I wish I could like the Orion VI's better than I do, but the seating arrangement in the back is just a bit too clumsy. Always someone propped out across the back seats or propped up on the rear wheel "daring" you to enter "their" space. The whole thing feels claustrophobic compared to a Nova LFS that has a similar arrangement.
I pay little mind to the New Flyers since they'll be around a while, though I do like the rear windows. The VII's - yawn...
Honestly, nothing in the satellite agencies really does it for me either (not a knock, as they all have decent stuff - but my tastes tend toward the "interesting"). About the closest thing are the RTS's at FFX for their novelty, but the catch is having to ride FFX to ride one!
The 2100s have a meaner sound kinda. About the 3900s, they are nervewrecking. Try living a mile up the street from Cheverly Station. These things live there. I can't stand sitting in them especially when it hits bumps and stuff. These things need to be extinct.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
The D40LFRs surely can. I've ridden them plenty of times where they reach up to 57. Ride Ons C40LFs have gotten around there. I took a couple on the 55, 70, and the 100. Even some of their Orion 7s can.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:39:00 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
The D40LFRs surely can. I've ridden them plenty of times where they reach up to 57. Ride Ons C40LFs have gotten around there. I took a couple on the 55, 70, and the 100. Even some of their Orion 7s can.
You sure about the D40LFRs? Hmm. I haven't been on a single D40LFR that went that fast or maybe it's just me.
Maybe it is just you because I have gone well beyond that (in anything but a WMATA Orion VII). The point is, WMATA's VIIs are slow RELATIVE TO OTHER BUSES. Drivers complain all the time about them.
And piggybacking on Antonzilla (who lives in VA and is similarly subjected to them and only them on a daily basis, depending on which routes he rides), they ride rough, you can't see out of the bus in the lower level, they aren't holding up well (WMATA had to machine a white bracket at the bottom of all the vertical support columns where the stop request bell cords are mounted because, before, if you pulled the cord, the whole plastic cover would come out from the wall - there is VELCRO, yes VELCRO behind them, I have photos! What STUPID A$$ bus manufacturer would use VELCRO to secure surfaces that are CONSTANTLY BEING PULLED ON?!!!!!), and they're boring - you know what's coming when you hear the noise - although I kinda like that sound.
Brandon, to answer your question as to my first reactions, I thought they sounded like Ride On's Cummins-Voith VIIs when they first came in (as they broke in, they began to sound different)...I have a recording of an early trip on one of these units and it sounds closer to a WMATA VII than anything Ride On has today...and I thought that after a few months, they'd start to sound less boring. That hasn't happened.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Just because they are buses doesn't mean they are slow. It all on how the buses are governed (especially with electronic controls). You'd be lucky to get a bus that can get above 55. Why have the speedometer go up to 90 when most of them just top off around 55 or 59.
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
Uhhh! I've ridden and paced many WMATA buses at speeds over 60 MPH. The D40LFR certainly go past 60 with little effort and I see this daily when driving next to a J9 on I-270.
Quote from: WayneNYC on December 10, 2008, 02:02:51 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Just because they are buses doesn't mean they are slow. It all on how the buses are governed (especially with electronic controls). You'd be lucky to get a bus that can get above 55. Why have the speedometer go up to 90 when most of them just top off around 55 or 59.
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
Uhhh! I've ridden and paced many WMATA buses at speeds over 60 MPH. The D40LFR certainly go past 60 with little effort and I see this daily when driving next to a J9 on I-270.
I know, I know. The Hybrids are also pretty fast buses. The hybrids start off fast then keeps going fast!! DE40LFR and DE40LF.
Quote from: Tristan on December 10, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
Maybe it is just you because I have gone well beyond that (in anything but a WMATA Orion VII). The point is, WMATA's VIIs are slow RELATIVE TO OTHER BUSES. Drivers complain all the time about them.
And piggybacking on Antonzilla (who lives in VA and is similarly subjected to them and only them on a daily basis, depending on which routes he rides), they ride rough, you can't see out of the bus in the lower level, they aren't holding up well (WMATA had to machine a white bracket at the bottom of all the vertical support columns where the stop request bell cords are mounted because, before, if you pulled the cord, the whole plastic cover would come out from the wall - there is VELCRO, yes VELCRO behind them, I have photos! What STUPID A$$ bus manufacturer would use VELCRO to secure surfaces that are CONSTANTLY BEING PULLED ON?!!!!!), and they're boring - you know what's coming when you hear the noise - although I kinda like that sound.
Brandon, to answer your question as to my first reactions, I thought they sounded like Ride On's Cummins-Voith VIIs when they first came in (as they broke in, they began to sound different)...I have a recording of an early trip on one of these units and it sounds closer to a WMATA VII than anything Ride On has today...and I thought that after a few months, they'd start to sound less boring. That hasn't happened.
Look at this video and tell me this doesn't sound like garbage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGFsRCYLKJM&feature=channel_page
YUp VIIs and only VIIs
16 line especially the 16Y
Occasionally a V on the 10B
Alas my beloved VIs have left me :'( :'( :'( :'(
Man you people make me sick...Downin my bus like that.What in heavens name is wrong with the Orion Vii?The John deere is beast!!!!
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 10, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
Maybe it is just you because I have gone well beyond that (in anything but a WMATA Orion VII). The point is, WMATA's VIIs are slow RELATIVE TO OTHER BUSES. Drivers complain all the time about them.
And piggybacking on Antonzilla (who lives in VA and is similarly subjected to them and only them on a daily basis, depending on which routes he rides), they ride rough, you can't see out of the bus in the lower level, they aren't holding up well (WMATA had to machine a white bracket at the bottom of all the vertical support columns where the stop request bell cords are mounted because, before, if you pulled the cord, the whole plastic cover would come out from the wall - there is VELCRO, yes VELCRO behind them, I have photos! What STUPID A$$ bus manufacturer would use VELCRO to secure surfaces that are CONSTANTLY BEING PULLED ON?!!!!!), and they're boring - you know what's coming when you hear the noise - although I kinda like that sound.
Brandon, to answer your question as to my first reactions, I thought they sounded like Ride On's Cummins-Voith VIIs when they first came in (as they broke in, they began to sound different)...I have a recording of an early trip on one of these units and it sounds closer to a WMATA VII than anything Ride On has today...and I thought that after a few months, they'd start to sound less boring. That hasn't happened.
Look at this video and tell me this doesn't sound like garbage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGFsRCYLKJM&feature=channel_page
Um. All 20 seconds of it sound fine to me, including the 10 seconds during which it was actually accelerating...your point?
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Just because they are buses doesn't mean they are slow. It all on how the buses are governed (especially with electronic controls). You'd be lucky to get a bus that can get above 55. Why have the speedometer go up to 90 when most of them just top off around 55 or 59.
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
When the C40LFs first came in, I followed one doing 70 mph.
Is that fast or what?
Quote from: WES on December 11, 2008, 11:14:41 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
Hater. -_- Anyways, there isn't anything wrong with Orion VIIs I don't get why you all hate them. Ok so they're a bit slow. Most buses are slow due to the fact that they are BUSES.
Just because they are buses doesn't mean they are slow. It all on how the buses are governed (especially with electronic controls). You'd be lucky to get a bus that can get above 55. Why have the speedometer go up to 90 when most of them just top off around 55 or 59.
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
When the C40LFs first came in, I followed one doing 70 mph.
Is that fast or what?
Good enough for me.
Quote from: Tristan on December 11, 2008, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 10, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
Maybe it is just you because I have gone well beyond that (in anything but a WMATA Orion VII). The point is, WMATA's VIIs are slow RELATIVE TO OTHER BUSES. Drivers complain all the time about them.
And piggybacking on Antonzilla (who lives in VA and is similarly subjected to them and only them on a daily basis, depending on which routes he rides), they ride rough, you can't see out of the bus in the lower level, they aren't holding up well (WMATA had to machine a white bracket at the bottom of all the vertical support columns where the stop request bell cords are mounted because, before, if you pulled the cord, the whole plastic cover would come out from the wall - there is VELCRO, yes VELCRO behind them, I have photos! What STUPID A$$ bus manufacturer would use VELCRO to secure surfaces that are CONSTANTLY BEING PULLED ON?!!!!!), and they're boring - you know what's coming when you hear the noise - although I kinda like that sound.
Brandon, to answer your question as to my first reactions, I thought they sounded like Ride On's Cummins-Voith VIIs when they first came in (as they broke in, they began to sound different)...I have a recording of an early trip on one of these units and it sounds closer to a WMATA VII than anything Ride On has today...and I thought that after a few months, they'd start to sound less boring. That hasn't happened.
Look at this video and tell me this doesn't sound like garbage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGFsRCYLKJM&feature=channel_page
Um. All 20 seconds of it sound fine to me, including the 10 seconds during which it was actually accelerating...your point?
What do you mean "your point"? That thing sounds like it needs to be in a junkyard somewhere. And you think THAT sounds better than WMATA's Orion VIIs? Then you must be smokin' somethin'.
I like the Orion VII, built quality and speed doesnt define everything. If thats the case, then Gillig makes some bomb ass buses.
They have GREAT ride, leans and floats nice, sounds great, and they're one of my favorite buses to work on. Yes CERTAIN orders lack a lot of power, and the built quality is sub-standard. They're not perfect buses, but they aren't shitty or monotonous as New Flyers.
And 55-59 is NOT fast for a bus, outside of Ride On and New York MTA, most transit buses are governed to anywhere between 65-70mph, which is STILL not fast for a bus. There are VERY few places where you'll find ungoverned transit buses. I've been on plenty of ungoverned Vanhools that were pushing 80+ and thats with the needle resting on the maximum point, and it wasnt struggling at all. You'll be amazing at what a bus can do if money, insurance, and safety wasn't a factor.
With that said...
Favorite WMATA buses
Orion VII 30' and JD
New Flyer C40LFR
NABI 416s
Flxible B > E > D
9600s
Worst
New Flyer D40LFR
Orion V 4200-2200s
Orion VI
Speed don't mean a THING...unless you're working.
Quote from: aznboy4305 on December 12, 2008, 11:03:03 AM
With that said...
Favorite WMATA buses
Orion VII 30' and JD
New Flyer C40LFR
NABI 416s
Flxible B > E > D
9600s
Worst
New Flyer D40LFR
Orion V 4200-2200s
Orion VI
Speed don't mean a THING
I agree with you on the VIIs and the Flxs, but the D40LFR and the VI are awesome. The 9600s-pssssshhhh.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:44:12 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:39:00 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
The D40LFRs surely can. I've ridden them plenty of times where they reach up to 57. Ride Ons C40LFs have gotten around there. I took a couple on the 55, 70, and the 100. Even some of their Orion 7s can.
You sure about the D40LFRs? Hmm. I haven't been on a single D40LFR that went that fast or maybe it's just me.
Lack of evidence isnt evidence in itself.
I hate D40LFR, it isn't aesthetically streamline at all. You have a 21st century front and back with a 1980s body in between with WTF doors, plus they are bland. But I'll admit they are very functional buses. Thats why I like the sluggish but proper looking C40LFRs over the fast but wtf looking D40LFRs.
Same with the Orion VI, very bland and monotonous but its a functional bus.
And the 9600s are just plain pimp :P
Quote from: aznboy4305 on December 12, 2008, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:44:12 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 10, 2008, 01:39:00 PM
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Knowlegde me a little. Name me a 40ft/60ft bus that can go 55-59. Which is fast for a bus but still slow. :)
The D40LFRs surely can. I've ridden them plenty of times where they reach up to 57. Ride Ons C40LFs have gotten around there. I took a couple on the 55, 70, and the 100. Even some of their Orion 7s can.
You sure about the D40LFRs? Hmm. I haven't been on a single D40LFR that went that fast or maybe it's just me.
Lack of evidence isnt evidence in itself.
Do you want more evidence? I live in PG County. I thought that would be enough evidence for you. PG is possessed with these things. Living in PG is enough evidence for me.
What does that have to do with how fast a bus can go?
My car is capable of doing 130+, but thats not something you'll see me doing every day.
Quote from: aznboy4305 on December 12, 2008, 11:18:42 AM
What does that have to do with how fast a bus can go?
My car is capable of doing 130+, but thats not something you'll see me doing every day.
You said lack of evidence of me riding the D40LFRs right? I've ridden them a million times and not one of them went fast. What are you talking about?
No, I saying just because you haven't been on one going fast doesn't they're not ABLE to go fast.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: Antozilla on December 10, 2008, 01:31:21 PM
Aside from being slow, they ride rough, you can't see out the front, stadium seating oh and that wom wom woom sound they make
Now that's the sound I love. The brake release sound. That sound is the reason I love Orion VIIs. ;D
That's just about the only thing I like about those buses more than others. Also, I enjoy the fact that they are so tall, including the doors.
Is it so rare to see DC Area buses go that fast? I've heard rumors of some of them going up to 70+.
In the SEPTA region, buses outside of the NABIs max out (with governer) around 60/65.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on December 13, 2008, 01:30:56 PM
Is it so rare to see DC Area buses go that fast? I've heard rumors of some of them going up to 70+.
If you're in DC and some of the other areas with lots of stop and go traffic, they won't get up to speed much. However, there plenty of routes that have nice stretches of open road and/or highway to reach high speeds. I've paced many WMATA buses in my car hovering around 70 MPH.
Personally, I think 65-70 MPH on a transit bus is enough. I don't see where they need to go much faster. Most WMATA buses will reach those speeds. Sometimes speed is a factor in a bus being one of my favorites, but not always. Perfect example is WMATA's Orion VI and Neoplan AN-460. The DD 6V-92TA equipped Metro-Bs were high on my list too, but most know that they weren't too fast in their last days. Then on the other hand, I'm with most of the guys who can't stand the Orion V 2100/2200, but they're not excatly slow buses.
Quote from: NewFlyer97BCT on December 04, 2008, 03:38:45 PM
Favorite 4 (in no order):
-Orion V (21-2200s and 42-4400s) (YES I SAID 21-2200s!)
-Orion VII
-New Flyer (all types)
-Flxible Metro
Most hated 3 (in no order):
-Orion VI
-Orion V (9600s)
-Orion II
What I wish they had/kept (stealing MetroLiner's idea):
-All the retired Metro-B's
-New Flyer D40LF's with DD50 engines (like BCT's New Flyers...WHICH ARE FREAKIN GONE)
-Gillig Advantages (like Ride-On's newest ones, and the 30' ones as well) - preferrably hybrids
-MAN artics (I just wanted to see them)
-Orion VII diesel (same engines as some of BCT's older Gilligs (Cummins ISM or ISL with unknown transmission))
Let me add some pros and cons I just thought about:
Pros:Orion V (2100s, 4300s, 3900s) - fast, I like the engine sound, comfy seats, great legroom on most seats. Also, I honestly don't see ANY difference between the 2100s and 4300s, except a bit of the seating arrangement but that's it.
Flxible Metro D - Great legroom, love the engine sound (all of Metro Ds) and there's nothing I love more in the world than the whistling sound that some make while accelerating.
Flxible Metro-E - Legroom again, comfy seats on the upper 4000s / 4100s.
New Flyer (all except the CNGs) - Fast
Orion VII - I love that new bus feel and the engine sound and sometimes whistle while accelerating, not like the Flx Metro Ds though.
Cons:New Flyer (all of them) - Bad legroom, the CNGs are really slow. The C40LFs are really bland and boring (95% chance a Bladensburg bus will be a C40LF...boring...)
Orion VI - Bad legroom, I hate sitting on the side seats, and the only good front-facing seat is the 2nd-to-last row. Other than that, I actually do like the Orion VIs.
Orion II - Like the Orion VI, bad legroom, but for the WHOLE
BUS VEHICLE. They're nice looking, but I hate riding them.
Orion VII - Bad Legroom and the stop request sign is RIDICULOUSLY high in the lower part (not the 2700s since they have the overhead racks). Who cares if people can see a stop request cord from the outisde...I couldn't care less. But no, they decide to hide it on the window divider thing, which is really high.
I'm perplexed and confused as to how you say that the New Flyer CNGs are slow and boring but the Orion VIIs are somehow exciting. I guess the difference truly is in what you see every day, cuz I'd take a well-built, FAST (I dunno where you got this slow thing from, maybe it's the routes you're riding but I've never ONCE been on a C40LF with any "mechanical" speed issues, in fact they get kinda lurchy because they tend to want to take off too fast) C40LF over a struggling sputtering Orion VII any day.
This isn't just hearsay - I've been on Orion VIIs MULTIPLE TIMES that were PULLED OUT OF SERVICE - you heard it, EXCHANGED - because they moved TOO SLOW. The only other ridiculously slow experiences I had until that point where on 8700s (needs no explanation) and 9730 on the F4 on that field trip a few years back...y'all 'member, the one that rolled backwards down that hill every time the driver hit the gas. Oh, and an Ikarus that made all these big bad topped out noises like it was flying on the Y but barely broke 40.
Also, just because you don't see a difference between the 2100s and the 4300s doesn't mean there isn't any. Do you think the several members here who mentioned a difference are just making it up?
And...you have to give the Orion II some credit for what it is trying to be. I too used to think that they're pretty silly looking until I came to the stark realization that, for buses under 30 feet, it was either IIs or Champion/ElDorado cutaways. It's a shame that a low ridership route automatically means a piece of junk, nowadays.
Yeah it's true I don't ride the Orion VIIs every day. I do admit though that they are slow. Plus, I have rode the New Flyer CNGs a lot, and from what I remember, they are slow. If they were put on the J7/J9 or some other express route, then I might see the true speed these things have.
And I was just giving my personal opinion - I personally don't see any difference between the 2100s and 4300s, other than the fact that the 2100s have great A/C.
And yeah, I guess it's true about the Orion IIs, at least they're not Helldorados and it's better for the surrounding neighbors rather than hearing a large bus go by all the time or a Helldorado.
Quote from: aznboy4305 on December 12, 2008, 10:57:52 AM
I like the Orion VII, built quality and speed doesnt define everything. If thats the case, then Gillig makes some bomb ass buses.
They have GREAT ride, leans and floats nice, sounds great, and they're one of my favorite buses to work on. Yes CERTAIN orders lack a lot of power, and the built quality is sub-standard. They're not perfect buses, but they aren't shitty or monotonous as New Flyers.
And 55-59 is NOT fast for a bus, outside of Ride On and New York MTA, most transit buses are governed to anywhere between 65-70mph, which is STILL not fast for a bus. There are VERY few places where you'll find ungoverned transit buses. I've been on plenty of ungoverned Vanhools that were pushing 80+ and thats with the needle resting on the maximum point, and it wasnt struggling at all. You'll be amazing at what a bus can do if money, insurance, and safety wasn't a factor.
Speaking of fast, a buddy of mine in LA said he pushed a D40HF to 79 on the freeway. And these are L10s were talking about.
Quite frankly to me, I do have my favorites and dislikes, but the one thing I want in a bus is to take me from point A to point B safely. I wouldn't care if it a 2100, 4300, 9600, 5200, etc, as long as I can get to my destination safely, that's all that matters. As for buses being slow, sometimes it not just the speed, but the capacity of the line as well as traffic. A tic on the Q2 during rush hour heading to Silver Spring felt like it took all day, but at least I had something to do riding down. I don't mind riding the long lines (except the Y) just as long as I have my iPod and my paper.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 14, 2008, 09:58:49 AM
Quote from: aznboy4305 on December 12, 2008, 10:57:52 AM
I like the Orion VII, built quality and speed doesnt define everything. If thats the case, then Gillig makes some bomb ass buses.
They have GREAT ride, leans and floats nice, sounds great, and they're one of my favorite buses to work on. Yes CERTAIN orders lack a lot of power, and the built quality is sub-standard. They're not perfect buses, but they aren't shitty or monotonous as New Flyers.
And 55-59 is NOT fast for a bus, outside of Ride On and New York MTA, most transit buses are governed to anywhere between 65-70mph, which is STILL not fast for a bus. There are VERY few places where you'll find ungoverned transit buses. I've been on plenty of ungoverned Vanhools that were pushing 80+ and thats with the needle resting on the maximum point, and it wasnt struggling at all. You'll be amazing at what a bus can do if money, insurance, and safety wasn't a factor.
Speaking of fast, a buddy of mine in LA said he pushed a D40HF to 79 on the freeway. And these are L10s were talking about.
Quite frankly to me, I do have my favorites and dislikes, but the one thing I want in a bus is to take me from point A to point B safely. I wouldn't care if it a 2100, 4300, 9600, 5200, etc, as long as I can get to my destination safely, that's all that matters. As for buses being slow, sometimes it not just the speed, but the capacity of the line as well as traffic. A tic on the Q2 during rush hour heading to Silver Spring felt like it took all day, but at least I had something to do riding down. I don't mind riding the long lines (except the Y) just as long as I have my iPod and my paper.
Well at least you have something to do. My iPod doesn't work anymore and I got nothing else. That's why a fast ride matters for me. Although I did mention the New Flyers have bad legroom, it's my preferred choice on the Q2 to go home because they are fast and I want to go home ASAP after a long day out. IMO I wouldn't mind a 4300s on the Q2 as well.
I give interior configuration and powertrain next to no consideration at all when I'm rating a bus. Just because a bus can do 0-60 in 10 seconds and have first class seating doesn't say much about the bus itself, thats all customer spec'd.
Take the Orion VII, you might hate them just because you've only rode WMATA's units. They're slow beyond any practical applications, they don't get to open up, they suck, etc, etc. Then look at Ride On's units, they can move, they bounce, they lean, they sound better, they're FUN to ride, all sorts of crazy shit. I do not judge a model based on components that the bus manufacturer had NOTHING to do with (Orion didn't decide what powertrain to put in the VIIs, how to tune it, what seats to put in it, how they were gonna be arranged, what type of passenger traffic its going to handle, and so on)
Also I judge buses based on different perspectives. I love and hate certain buses as a transit fan, certain buses as a traffic checker, certain buses as a commuter, and definitely certain buses if I were an operator.
And to add to existing disagreements...
There IS a difference between 4200/4300s and 2100/2200s
WMATA's C40LFs are FAST (they're not as fast as they once were, but still fast)
WMATA's C40LFRs are SLOW
Orion IIs are the king of their class.
Good points Ray, although I'm not sure WMATA specified velcro as a building material.
Indeed. I do remember back when Ride-On's DD50G Orion VIIs were somewhat new (I think it was my 2nd time riding them) I saw someone nearly rip the wall off of the bus just by pulling the pull cord...
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 10, 2008, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 10, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
Maybe it is just you because I have gone well beyond that (in anything but a WMATA Orion VII). The point is, WMATA's VIIs are slow RELATIVE TO OTHER BUSES. Drivers complain all the time about them.
And piggybacking on Antonzilla (who lives in VA and is similarly subjected to them and only them on a daily basis, depending on which routes he rides), they ride rough, you can't see out of the bus in the lower level, they aren't holding up well (WMATA had to machine a white bracket at the bottom of all the vertical support columns where the stop request bell cords are mounted because, before, if you pulled the cord, the whole plastic cover would come out from the wall - there is VELCRO, yes VELCRO behind them, I have photos! What STUPID A$$ bus manufacturer would use VELCRO to secure surfaces that are CONSTANTLY BEING PULLED ON?!!!!!), and they're boring - you know what's coming when you hear the noise - although I kinda like that sound.
Brandon, to answer your question as to my first reactions, I thought they sounded like Ride On's Cummins-Voith VIIs when they first came in (as they broke in, they began to sound different)...I have a recording of an early trip on one of these units and it sounds closer to a WMATA VII than anything Ride On has today...and I thought that after a few months, they'd start to sound less boring. That hasn't happened.
Look at this video and tell me this doesn't sound like garbage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGFsRCYLKJM&feature=channel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGFsRCYLKJM&feature=channel_page)
I think that's the air compressor, actually. I know on my recording of R-O 5933, a ZF Orion VII, the engine started off with that t-t-t-t-t noise, but then went the chst and the engine sounded smooth afterwards.
I was wondering what he was saying is wrong with the bus. All CNG Orions seem to have loud air compressors, including your beloved WMATA units.
Quote from: Tristan on December 15, 2008, 09:40:26 AM
I was wondering what he was saying is wrong with the bus. All CNG Orions seem to have loud air compressors, including your beloved WMATA units.
Not that. I mean it has an odd sound probably because of the ZF transmission. ZFs make buses sound like ass. And you say "beloved" like I married the damn things. I just like the way they sound. I don't see anything wrong with them. I can see you don't like them very much because you ride them everyday, but luckily for me, I don't have to, so everytime I go to VA, it feels kinda new.
Quote from: landoverdivision on December 08, 2008, 11:10:52 AM
Quote from: MetroLinerXLZ on December 06, 2008, 12:44:20 AM
My favorites:
The GMC RTS's (will always miss 'em)
The OLD fleet of Metro B's (especially bus #8854)
The Metro D's and E's (so smooth running, and most have their own unique sound)
C40LFs (all of them, those are the strongest running buses in D.C. IMO)
Orion VI (and they're speedy)
Orion VII's (the 30-footers and the John Deere set)
All them Neoplan artics, and the NABI 60-BRTs
The Least liked:
Orion V's (the 2100s SUCK, except #2198)
Orion VII's (the Cummins set, except the 30's)
ANY of the C/D/DE-40LFR models (because of the "European" styling; I'm SICK of it!!)
ICK-arus Model 436's (I wish they didn't lose their ZF's, or at least got a B500R instead)
The CURRENT fleet of Metro B's
What I WISH they had/kept:
The OLD fleet of Metro B's
NEWER NABI Model 436's or perhaps some 416's (original front end)
TMC or NovaBus RTS's
Orion VII CNG's with Allison B400R transmission
Orion VII Diesels
Orion VI's with Cummins ISM engines
1. What's wrong with the current fleet of Bs?
2. Cummins Orion VII (2500-2600s) DO NOT suck.
3. The 2100 series DO NOT suck.
4. Deisel Orion VIIs are HORRIBLE!
5. The NABI 60-SFW is one of the best older buses they have.
6. ZFs SUCK!
1. The current fleet of B's run quite stellar; but I strongly dislike the fact that they still get to run around D.C. without their 9200-series counterparts.
2. I would agree if they had Allison transmissions (like MARTA); then you'd have something fast enough to pass fully loaded tractor-trailer trucks. As for the 30s, the powertrain works magnificantly.
3. Only #2198 didn't smell like one of my farts, and I rode that bus in 2006.
4. No they don't. Just ask the TTC.
5. Because of the transmission they have, the Model 436s are severly underpowered. I know you've ridden the X2 a few times.
6. NO! THEY! DON'T!!! Matter of fact, those happen to be the most fuel-efficient transmissions nowadays. Why do you think Ride On runs the high 59s (5933-5957) like clockwork???
Quote from: aznboy4305 on December 14, 2008, 11:16:31 PM
WMATA's C40LFs are FAST (they're not as fast as they once were, but still fast)
I rode a couple C40LFs the other day, and I agree with you, these things are a lot faster than I thought. Sorry C40LF's!
I don't know about the regular-painted C40LFRs but the MetroExtra C40LFRs are slow IIRC.
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
I can confirm that the regularly painted ones are as slow as the Metro Extra buses. I rode one on the B2, and with the stop-and-go aspect of the route from Anacostia, it was a slow ride! With the drone of the C Gas Plus, it's easy to fall asleep though!
MY Favortite
WMATA- C/D40LFRs (I don't care about no stupid styling its just a bus)
C40LF- Because they brought on the New Flyer legacy in WMATA
Orion VII- JD, becuase they sound better (Only the Cummins when they whine)
NABI/IKARUS- I glad they took the ZF's out because they suck.
Neo-plans AN460- DDS60 ALL DAY!!!!!
Orion V (2100 series) Well does it make a difference all the Vs are the same
Orion VI Like they were 1st Low Floor buses in WMATA
All the LFAs Especially the DE62LFA I love the EP50
The Flxible Es, Ds and A's
Most hated
the NABI 60 BRT Although I like the engine sound in them they are the most fragile buses in wmata yet people hype them like they're all that ugh
Orion II Are you serious?? What was WMATA Thinking they were better off getting NABI 30 SFWs or something
Quote from: Tristan on December 21, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
The C40LFs have Allisons, the C40LFRs have Voiths.
Quote from: aznboy4305 on March 02, 2010, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 21, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
The C40LFs have Allisons, the C40LFRs have Voiths.
And the C40LFRs are not slow, they can pick up some speed I've been on some fast C40LFRs. Not to mention they're LFRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Southeastern Annex4421 on March 03, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
Quote from: aznboy4305 on March 02, 2010, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 21, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
The C40LFs have Allisons, the C40LFRs have Voiths.
And the C40LFRs are not slow, they can pick up some speed I've been on some fast C40LFRs. Not to mention they're LFRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HA! There slow! i was once on the 79 and that stop @ Kennedy street going towards silver spring we were stopped at a red light once it hit green it took us at least 4 mins to get up that little hill...The engine was making some sweet noise though.
Its not a METRObus, but. . .
Once, when I was deadheading from Montgomery Mall, I was directly behind a brand new 5300 series Gillig Phantom, as we both got on 270 @ Old Georgetown Rd on a Saturday afternoon.
I was driving a TMC
The TMC I was driving, didn't have a governor, and I had it wide open.
By the time I hit 270 & the inner loop, that Gillig Phantom was well in my rear view mirrors.
I had that bus parked, and had walked up the hill, to the drivers parking lot, when that bus finally arrived at Brookville. That driver could only smile. He later told me, he was struggling to get that Gillig to maintain 50MPH.
I made it a point, to ask for that particular TMC if ever I saw it unassigned on the board.
It also had an A/C so cold, you needed a sweater.
This bus looked like a dog on the outside.
Inside, it ran like a hungry greyhound chasing after a squirrel.
Quote from: Southeastern Annex4421 on March 03, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
Quote from: aznboy4305 on March 02, 2010, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 21, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
The C40LFs have Allisons, the C40LFRs have Voiths.
And the C40LFRs are not slow, they can pick up some speed I've been on some fast C40LFRs. Not to mention they're LFRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not that they're incapable of reaching high speeds, but more that they accelerate slowly.
Quote from: DCT S9Z4Z6 on March 03, 2010, 11:39:08 PM
Its not a METRObus, but. . .
Once, when I was deadheading from Montgomery Mall, I was directly behind a brand new 5300 series Gillig Phantom, as we both got on 270 @ Old Georgetown Rd on a Saturday afternoon.
I was driving a TMC
The TMC I was driving, didn't have a governor, and I had it wide open.
By the time I hit 270 & the inner loop, that Gillig Phantom was well in my rear view mirrors.
I had that bus parked, and had walked up the hill, to the drivers parking lot, when that bus finally arrived at Brookville. That driver could only smile. He later told me, he was struggling to get that Gillig to maintain 50MPH.
I made it a point, to ask for that particular TMC if ever I saw it unassigned on the board.
It also had an A/C so cold, you needed a sweater.
This bus looked like a dog on the outside.
Inside, it ran like a hungry greyhound chasing after a squirrel.
:( If only I could go back in time....I never got to have a final ride on one of my beloved TMC buses.
Quote from: ir0cq09 on March 03, 2010, 10:38:09 PM
Quote from: Southeastern Annex4421 on March 03, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
Quote from: aznboy4305 on March 02, 2010, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 21, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
The C40LFs have Allisons, the C40LFRs have Voiths.
And the C40LFRs are not slow, they can pick up some speed I've been on some fast C40LFRs. Not to mention they're LFRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HA! There slow! i was once on the 79 and that stop @ Kennedy street going towards silver spring we were stopped at a red light once it hit green it took us at least 4 mins to get up that little hill...The engine was making some sweet noise though.
Yeah I highly doubt that they have Voiths and Voiths are hill climbers look at the D40LFRs(My favorite in the fleet can't nobody tell me nothing about them so try me lol) the do well going up hills. You might be talking about the Orion VIIs
J
Quote from: Southeastern Annex4421 on March 04, 2010, 08:02:06 PM
Quote from: ir0cq09 on March 03, 2010, 10:38:09 PM
Quote from: Southeastern Annex4421 on March 03, 2010, 09:12:29 PM
Quote from: aznboy4305 on March 02, 2010, 07:24:00 PM
Quote from: Tristan on December 21, 2008, 05:50:43 PM
That, George, I can agree with -- and I don't think there would really be a difference between the two. But I have noticed that they aren't rockets.
The C40LFs have Allisons, the C40LFRs have Voiths.
And the C40LFRs are not slow, they can pick up some speed I've been on some fast C40LFRs. Not to mention they're LFRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HA! There slow! i was once on the 79 and that stop @ Kennedy street going towards silver spring we were stopped at a red light once it hit green it took us at least 4 mins to get up that little hill...The engine was making some sweet noise though.
Yeah I highly doubt that they have Voiths and Voiths are hill climbers look at the D40LFRs(My favorite in the fleet can't nobody tell me nothing about them so try me lol) the do well going up hills. You might be talking about the Orion VIIs
Actually the C40LFRs do have voith trannys. Thats what i love the C-Gas/Voith combo.
Quote from: Southeastern Annex4421 on March 04, 2010, 08:02:06 PM
Yeah I highly doubt that they have Voiths...You might be talking about the Orion VIIs
The Orion VIIs also have Voiths...
The "hill climber" feature of the D40LFRs may have more to do with the ISM rather than the Voith. The C Gas Plus isn't as powerful...and therefore is slow as molasses in stop and go operation.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on March 08, 2010, 10:56:43 AM
The "hill climber" feature of the D40LFRs may have more to do with the ISM rather than the Voith. The C Gas Plus isn't as powerful...and therefore is slow as molasses in stop and go operation.
On the WMATA CNG buses... My guess is that the Voith tranny is the culprit. I say this because the C40LFs have pretty good acceleration.
Yes, I agree with you, Wayne. I think the Voith and C Gas plus are the perfect storm, creating slow acceleration. Otherwise, with the Allisons they move quite nicely.
I wish we had more of the ISL G. Now THATS a nice CNG engine, and would probably do well with the Voith. It sure does well with the Allisons in the 60-BRTs and the ZF (which I rode in Phoenix on their newer C40LFRs)
Quote from: WayneNYC on March 08, 2010, 12:43:19 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on March 08, 2010, 10:56:43 AM
The "hill climber" feature of the D40LFRs may have more to do with the ISM rather than the Voith. The C Gas Plus isn't as powerful...and therefore is slow as molasses in stop and go operation.
On the WMATA CNG buses... My guess is that the Voith tranny is the culprit. I say this because the C40LFs have pretty good acceleration.
Well the CNG tank itself is the culprit all of that added weight.
I detest the XDE40s. They are such a down grade from the DE42LFAs. Should of brought more of them or some Orion VII hybrids.