Ending the Peak of the Peak surcharge, putting Smartrip vending machines in all Metrorail stations, and shifting paper farecards to a $4 off-peak/$6 peak structure.
The 5%, of course, isn't evenly distributed as farther-out rail riders get a hike of nearly 30% off-peak ($2.70 to $3.50) and 15% off-peak ($5.00 to $5.75). Bus fares would go up to $1.60/$2.00 with cash Express going to $4. Post article below.
[size=78%]http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/metro-proposes-5-percent-fare-increase/2012/01/06/gIQACLoumP_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/metro-proposes-5-percent-fare-increase/2012/01/06/gIQACLoumP_story.html)[/size]
I thought all Metrorail stations already had Smartrip vending machines for some time now. Which ones do not?
While I'm not thrilled with the amount of the bus fare increase, those fares are more in line with other major transit systems. I hope that this also means that the "low Anacostia rate" is removed as well... I still detest the fact that there are no daypasses though or even transfer privileges for those without Smartrip Cards. If someone is visiting the region for the first time...and probably won't return anytime soon, paying $5 for a Smartrip (or $2.50 for a CharmCard) and having to add value is a bit ridiculous, and is a deterrent to the very occasional rider.
The farecard changes are bittersweet. I like the idea of having a flat rate (I'm sure you guys have seen just how confusing it is to try to figure out how much someone has to pay to travel between stations) but the prices are bit ridiculous. Perhaps they can do a "zone" type of thing, with a DC rate, an intra-suburb rate, and a DC to suburb rate. Of course, at the same time, this would make the daypasses a better deal.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on January 10, 2012, 10:02:21 AM
I thought all Metrorail stations already had Smartrip vending machines for some time now. Which ones do not?
Every station without parking. The machines that would be added are machines where actual Smartrip cards can be bought as opposed to machines that can handle Smartrip transactions. When I first came here four years ago, I was a bit in shock that I'd have to go all the way to Metro Center from Bethesda for a Smartrip (this when the only offsite sales were commuter stores and a scant few Giant locations).
QuoteThe farecard changes are bittersweet. I like the idea of having a flat rate (I'm sure you guys have seen just how confusing it is to try to figure out how much someone has to pay to travel between stations) but the prices are bit ridiculous. Perhaps they can do a "zone" type of thing, with a DC rate, an intra-suburb rate, and a DC to suburb rate. Of course, at the same time, this would make the daypasses a better deal.
I think it's an attempt to try to phase out paper farecards. At those prices, who would want to buy them? With RFID chips becoming more flexible, they could move passes to a thinner version of Smartrip at a lower cost than paper if they put their minds to it.
I've criticized WMATA for not having Smartrip vending machines systemwide by now. It is ridiculous that you can't buy a Smartrip, the preferred payment method as far as WMATA is concerned, systemwide IMO.
The fairest fare is one based on your exact distance. Someone who rides from Shady Grove to Metro Center is using more of the system than someone going from Friendship Heights to Metro Center. I have yet to look at the budget, but I doubt they are proposing to lower the per mile fee for trips over 7 miles long, which is steeper than for the first 3 miles or miles 3-7, and I think that should be changed. Zones aren't so great, some riders might see a drop but if you want to ride two stops and happen to cross a boundary line (say there is a line at Friendship Heights and someone wants to go from Tenleytown to Bethesda or Medical Center) the price can go up significantly.
I would like to see a system like London's Oyster, where the card calculates your lowest fare as you travel. Qualify for the daypass rate? It stops charging you. Weekly pass? Monthly pass? Once you hit the limits, you stop paying. I'm not sure there is an equitable pass option in light of the distance based fares that WMATA has. Note that BART doesn't have them either.
I'm opposed to the flat fares for farecards. I get that it is supposed to be a "tourist fare", but what if my Smartrip doesn't work and I have to buy a farecard for a single trip? I don't mind small surcharges for paper cards (25 cents, 20%, however they want to do it) but the demands of all the newbies to the area wanting a flat fare are a bit over the top in my opinion. Somehow, before all the bloggers and such came to town, people figured out how to read the fare table.
I wrote back when POP was proposed why I thought giving it a trial run was a worthy idea, though I agree it hasn't worked out and ought to be discontinued.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on January 10, 2012, 10:02:21 AM
While I'm not thrilled with the amount of the bus fare increase, those fares are more in line with other major transit systems. I hope that this also means that the "low Anacostia rate" is removed as well... I still detest the fact that there are no daypasses though or even transfer privileges for those without Smartrip Cards. If someone is visiting the region for the first time...and probably won't return anytime soon, paying $5 for a Smartrip (or $2.50 for a CharmCard) and having to add value is a bit ridiculous, and is a deterrent to the very occasional rider.
The farecard changes are bittersweet. I like the idea of having a flat rate (I'm sure you guys have seen just how confusing it is to try to figure out how much someone has to pay to travel between stations) but the prices are bit ridiculous. Perhaps they can do a "zone" type of thing, with a DC rate, an intra-suburb rate, and a DC to suburb rate. Of course, at the same time, this would make the daypasses a better deal.
Agreed. In the case of Metrobus, I agree that the increase would be significant, but I still think that $2 (nowadays) isn't too much, especially if the current transfer privileges remain intact.
I continue to have very strong feelings in regards to metrorail fares. That said, I won't even get started on them except to say that I think metrorail riders have been getting gouged for years, and I feel for those who have no other commuting options.
Quote from: WayneNYC on January 12, 2012, 09:52:44 AM
Agreed. In the case of Metrobus, I agree that the increase would be significant, but I still think that $2 (nowadays) isn't too much, especially if the current transfer privileges remain intact.
Metrobus has been a bargain for quite some time and I think that $1.70/$2.00 is very reasonable at this point.
QuoteI continue to have very strong feelings in regards to metrorail fares. That said, I won't even get started on them except to say that I think metrorail riders have been getting gouged for years, and I feel for those who have no other commuting options.
I guess this is the time to mention that I'm moving this weekend from DC to the Boston suburbs and my commute into Boston (via "Inner Express" bus at $2.80 with free transfer to subway) would be a couple of dollars below Metrorail peak hour fares. And for how under-speced the MBTA's buses are and how the 01200/01500/01600's are wheezing, it seems more fair given the cost than when I was doing a bus-to-Metro commute that was nearly double that from North Arlington to White Flint.
The state of the Metrorail system coupled with the high peak-hour fares (and poor headways even in some cases in peak, let alone nights/weekends) has bred the discontent of riders more than anything.
Jason, is your new commute comprable in terms of distance with regard to a Metrorail line as we discussed previously? WMATA's rates are still in line with other TAs for the first 6-7 miles, and other systems don't take you much further than that.
Distance from my new residence to Haymarket (terminus of said bus): 11 miles. Travel time: 25-30 minutes plus the walk to the stop and travel time to final destination.
Commute from my old place in Arlington to White Flint, following the literal Metro path: Just under 17 miles. Travel time: 60-70 minutes plus a 10 minute walk to final destination
The alternate routes in my new case would be to either transfer to the Blue Line or to take a bus in the opposite direction and go to Commuter Rail and that would be pointless during the week as it takes more time and costs more money.
Are you going through town on the new commute or not? UnsuckDC Metro did some BS analysis of how WMATA's low base fare isn't as good as the WMATA Board and Staff claims, they should look at that analysis I convinced you to do when comparing the WMATA fares to other systems.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 13, 2012, 08:18:08 AM
Are you going through town on the new commute or not? UnsuckDC Metro did some BS analysis of how WMATA's low base fare isn't as good as the WMATA Board and Staff claims, they should look at that analysis I convinced you to do when comparing the WMATA fares to other systems.
As I'm looking for work (move is because the wife's family is up there and she wants to be closer to them), it'd vary based on day. However, should it matter given that the MBTA is a flat-fared system and my transfer to rail would be free? However, if the MBTA were to be run like WMATA a) my area would be close to rail and b) the fares would be in-line with WMATA if the MBTA adopted such a system.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on January 12, 2012, 08:12:04 AM
I've criticized WMATA for not having Smartrip vending machines systemwide by now. It is ridiculous that you can't buy a Smartrip, the preferred payment method as far as WMATA is concerned, systemwide IMO.
The fairest fare is one based on your exact distance. Someone who rides from Shady Grove to Metro Center is using more of the system than someone going from Friendship Heights to Metro Center. I have yet to look at the budget, but I doubt they are proposing to lower the per mile fee for trips over 7 miles long, which is steeper than for the first 3 miles or miles 3-7, and I think that should be changed. Zones aren't so great, some riders might see a drop but if you want to ride two stops and happen to cross a boundary line (say there is a line at Friendship Heights and someone wants to go from Tenleytown to Bethesda or Medical Center) the price can go up significantly.
I would like to see a system like London's Oyster, where the card calculates your lowest fare as you travel. Qualify for the daypass rate? It stops charging you. Weekly pass? Monthly pass? Once you hit the limits, you stop paying. I'm not sure there is an equitable pass option in light of the distance based fares that WMATA has. Note that BART doesn't have them either.
I'm opposed to the flat fares for farecards. I get that it is supposed to be a "tourist fare", but what if my Smartrip doesn't work and I have to buy a farecard for a single trip? I don't mind small surcharges for paper cards (25 cents, 20%, however they want to do it) but the demands of all the newbies to the area wanting a flat fare are a bit over the top in my opinion. Somehow, before all the bloggers and such came to town, people figured out how to read the fare table.
I wrote back when POP was proposed why I thought giving it a trial run was a worthy idea, though I agree it hasn't worked out and ought to be discontinued.
Oren -
My position is that mass transit fares should always be affordable. At this point Metrorail fares are manageable for many people, but I'm sure for low-income people, Metrorail fares can be a budget buster. Also, in regards to the push to get more cars off the roads, I think Metrorail fares provide little incentive for motorists to choose mass transit. In fact, I've heard a few examples from co-workers and others who have gone from commuting on Metrorail to driving because they were spending more money on Metrorail fares.
Also, if the fairest fare is one based on your distance traveled, then why stop there? Why not do the same with Metrobus? I personally think this would be a horrible idea and logistical nightmare, but in the name of fairness, why should rail riders pay distance-based fares while bus riders pay a flat fare.
Wayne,
I don't know how long the average Metrobus ride is, but if I had to hazard a guess, it is probably only a few miles, and quite possibly under the 3 mile and 7 mile ranges at which we see the Metrorail fares start to jump. I highly doubt anyone is riding the 32 or 36 from end to end for example. I also think that since Metrorail is crowded but there is excess capacity on board the buses (in theory, look at how many L2s short turn at Van Ness during rush hour for example), an economist would probably argue that the rail fares should be even higher but the bus fare might not be low enough.
Perhaps I don't mind the distance based scheme since I grew up with it, but I think there needs to be a balance found between a fair fare and an affordable one. Do we have that balance? Based on what riders and potential riders are saying, it seems the answer is no. I won't try defining what an affordable fare is (since some people have no problem spending money on things they want, but when it comes to other things, they just can't find the money), but an economist would argue that the more one uses the system, the more one should pay. I don't object to this latter principle, but I do object to the notion that someone traveling more than 10 miles should have to pay a higher per mile rate than someone making a shorter trip. If the suggestion I've made in this regard was implemented, I think some of the longer distance Metro fares would be less expensive and perhaps would seem more reasonable. (Of course they'd have to raise revenue from somewhere else instead to make up for that, and I'm also not sure it is fair that during the off peak hours, there is a de facto zone system of sorts while during rush hour the fares truly vary based on mileage.)
QuotePerhaps I don't mind the distance based scheme since I grew up with it, but I think there needs to be a balance found between a fair fare and an affordable one. Do we have that balance? Based on what riders and potential riders are saying, it seems the answer is no.
I think a lot of the concerns ridership has is that they'd be paying more money but service keeps getting worse and worse over time. Since I moved, I've noticed that even though there parts of the MBTA infrastructure that are in declining shape that it's much easier to tolerate it at $1.70 a ride than at three times that as some WMATA commuters do. When a 35 year old system is in many respects in worse shape than a system that is 100+ in some parts, that is a cause for alarm.That said, as the MBTA faces doomsday, I think some people there may regret getting rid of the extra fares on the southern Braintree Branch and the D Line west of Reservoir seeing how much extra money those avenues could bring.
Oren,
On your point about growing up with with distance based fares, I can understand. While I'd like a flat fare, my main issue with Metrorail fares is the high cost. They start out reasonable and get expensive very quickly. On top of that there's not much in the way for commuters to get a break. I get that Metrorail serves different jurisdictions (and the unique funding issue), but I think the riders have been getting gouged with Metrorail fares. I think surcharges for crossing into other jurisdictions are OK, but they should be reasonable. In my mind a $200 plus monthly comumuting cost sounds more like a monthly pass on a commuter railroad. I don't expect anything to change in regards to Metrorail fares, especially as long as federal employees are getting that very generous subsidy. It's just sad, because I know what it's like to be poor and I'm sure these fares have to be hard on low-income people. That said, the powers-that-be also need to realize they're plenty low-income people residing outside of The District.
Quote from: WayneNYC on January 22, 2012, 04:01:17 PM
Oren,
On your point about growing up with with distance based fares, I can understand. While I'd like a flat fare, my main issue with Metrorail fares is the high cost. They start out reasonable and get expensive very quickly. On top of that there's not much in the way for commuters to get a break. I get that Metrorail serves different jurisdictions (and the unique funding issue), but I think the riders have been getting gouged with Metrorail fares. I think surcharges for crossing into other jurisdictions are OK, but they should be reasonable. In my mind a $200 plus monthly comumuting cost sounds more like a monthly pass on a commuter railroad. I don't expect anything to change in regards to Metrorail fares, especially as long as federal employees are getting that very generous subsidy. It's just sad, because I know what it's like to be poor and I'm sure these fares have to be hard on low-income people. That said, the powers-that-be also need to realize they're plenty low-income people residing outside of The District.
Wayne,
Points taken.