Increase the frequency on the bus routes that needed it what would happen. I will say nothing but probably one thing they would do is extend the 66,68 to the Pentagon, replacing the 13A,B.
Quote from: WES on October 06, 2008, 12:32:09 PM
Increase the frequency on the bus routes that needed it what would happen. I will say nothing but probably one thing they would do is extend the 66,68 to the Pentagon, replacing the 13A,B.
I don't really see any point in having those two routes go all the way to the Pentagon. I'd say have the 13A and B go back to its old schedule of running all day instead of just rush hour. It sucks to have only one bus go into VA from DC without having to take Metro.
I'd like to see some expansion in PG County to Upper Marlboro (at least have an express bus from Branch Avenue to Upper Marlboro) and expand the service hours on services in northern PG. Southern PG runs up until midnight on some routes.
I think you could save a bus if you sent certain trips of the 66/68 over to the Pentagon vs. running the 13 as a separate route. It of course depends on headway and blocking, but it is possible since these buses are already on the road.
Quote from: Tristan on October 06, 2008, 03:05:09 PM
I think you could save a bus if you sent certain trips of the 66/68 over to the Pentagon vs. running the 13 as a separate route. It of course depends on headway and blocking, but it is possible since these buses are already on the road.
True, but do we want Northern buses on the road for VA commuters? Hell, why not just interline the 13 with another FMR route and have certain ones doing reverse commutes back to the Pentagon do outbound 13s.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on October 06, 2008, 01:32:45 PM
Quote from: WES on October 06, 2008, 12:32:09 PM
Increase the frequency on the bus routes that needed it what would happen. I will say nothing but probably one thing they would do is extend the 66,68 to the Pentagon, replacing the 13A,B.
I don't really see any point in having those two routes go all the way to the Pentagon. I'd say have the 13A and B go back to its old schedule of running all day instead of just rush hour. It sucks to have only one bus go into VA from DC without having to take Metro.
I'd like to see some expansion in PG County to Upper Marlboro (at least have an express bus from Branch Avenue to Upper Marlboro) and expand the service hours on services in northern PG. Southern PG runs up until midnight on some routes.
There is a reason why the 13A,B have been cut back to rush hour. It is because it doesn't have the ridership to warrant having run all day. If you have ever seen the 13 during non rush hour know that these two routes didn't carry anyone at all.
Extending the 66/68 could have some benefits. Number one more people might take these two to Pentagon instead of those who live around that area to take metrorail, especially if they go to Pentagon City, and even more if both were extended to Pentagon City. Second as Tristan said you are saving a FMR bus which could be used to expand NOVA service, meanwhile the 5-10 minute extension wouldn't make the 66/68 too long. It would be wise if you extend both and not just one, because these two routes interline with each other as if this route runs like the 52, 54 then a bus may come in as a 66 and go out as a 68 and vice versa.
WMATA should have a bus that goes from DC to Virginia ALL day.
Quote from: NGOrion on October 08, 2008, 04:32:08 PM
WMATA should have a bus that goes from DC to Virginia ALL day.
They do, it's called the 5A or the 38B....
I'm talking about the East side of Virginia ie Crystal City, Pentagon City, Pentagon,
If you want to go to the Pentagon you got to catch 3 buses. If WMATA ran the 13 all day or had another bus similar to it, then one bus from DC to Pentagon.
The 13 is running how it is running for a reason. If WMATA wants to extend a route into DC from Va, they could extend either the 7 the 16, even the 9A that has been cut back to Huntington, which would work out better than the 13 running all day.
If you look at the 13, all this route does is get you into DC, it doesn't get you to anywhere important like Farragut Square, Union Station or the Convention Center. This route only stops a couple of blocks from Metro Center, the Bureau of Engraving and the Verizon Center. If you want to see most of the museums in DC then this route is great for you, but if you want to go to the Convention Center, make sure you are familiar with the Suckulator and the 70, because you'll need it.
Let's start this topic over again.
If WMATA got the funds it needed to increase bus service and/or add new routes what routes would be increased or what new routes would you add.
Reiterating past comments, the 13A/B WAS all day AND all weekend but was cut back a few budgets ago due to piss poor ridership. While we think it'd be nice "in principle", it just never caught on.
Yeah the 9A would be excellent if it went into DC.
Instead of a having routes 70 and 79, I'd just say "merge" the two and have a 70/70L. To me, the 79 is bordering on the line of service duplication.
Also, the 13 (IMO) seems to be a bit isolated and should be extended to Metro Center, though it can be eliminated and replaced by either the 7, 9, or 66/68.
A slight service extension (by an hour) on all major routes would be nice.
Perhaps some headways on certain Maryland routes could be increased by about 5 minutes, except the R2, which could at least see 45-min headways. This however, should be on Sunday service.
Quote from: NGOrion on October 09, 2008, 09:14:35 PM
Yeah the 9A would be excellent if it went into DC.
It used to go all the way into DC at one time in the past. I do think that might be a good idea to extend it to Federal Triangle. If someone can help me on the old 9A routing, what was the route it took when it used to go into downtown DC?
Quote from: MetroLinerXLZ on October 09, 2008, 11:42:33 PM
Instead of a having routes 70 and 79, I'd just say "merge" the two and have a 70/70L. To me, the 79 is bordering on the line of service duplication.
Also, the 13 (IMO) seems to be a bit isolated and should be extended to Metro Center, though it can be eliminated and replaced by either the 7, 9, or 66/68.
A slight service extension (by an hour) on all major routes would be nice.
Perhaps some headways on certain Maryland routes could be increased by about 5 minutes, except the R2, which could at least see 45-min headways. This however, should be on Sunday service.
The point of the 79 is to duplicate the 70 and provide extra service along Georgia Avenue. I'm pretty sure the Archives to Half Street section of the route is the least utilized, so it is the best use of resouces to only run the route north of that point.
Quote from: MetroLinerXLZ on October 09, 2008, 11:42:33 PM
Instead of a having routes 70 and 79, I'd just say "merge" the two and have a 70/70L. To me, the 79 is bordering on the line of service duplication.
It's bad enough now you got people who get on the 79 thinking its the 70. I wouldn't do a 70 and 70L just because alot of people will only see that 70 and think its local. Also, it kinda would go against the numbering system that's already in place (sans 89M, S80, S91, Y31). The 79 isn't really service duplication, its more along the lines of congestion relief (somewhat). During rush hour, the 70 used to be packed to the brim going up and down Georgia (although it still is). The 79 has helped congestion somewhat by getting those people who get off at the major stops along Georgia get to their destinations quicker than on the 70. After a year and a half since its inception, this line has been very successful and with the addition of midday service, it's truly become a good rapid line. All we need now is signal priority because alot of the signals along Georgia have a mind of their own.
24-hour service...I'm in favor of Owl buses if that's what it takes to get service on major corridors at all times.
Call me whatever you like but i think it would be cool if they made a 9a/10a express lol to D.C..
Quote from: orionvii271 on October 26, 2008, 12:04:47 AM
Call me whatever you like but i think it would be cool if they made a 9a/10a express lol to D.C..
9X and 10X ;D
Actually following recent nomenclature, it would probably be the 9Y and 10Y (3Y, 11Y, 16Y are your precedents).
Quote from: Tristan on October 10, 2008, 12:50:49 PM
24-hour service...I'm in favor of Owl buses if that's what it takes to get service on major corridors at all times.
I second that. Of course, you'd have to expand service hours in PG to operate past 10pm, but then there is the thing about late night rail service vs. owl service.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on October 27, 2008, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tristan on October 10, 2008, 12:50:49 PM
24-hour service...I'm in favor of Owl buses if that's what it takes to get service on major corridors at all times.
I second that. Of course, you'd have to expand service hours in PG to operate past 10pm, but then there is the thing about late night rail service vs. owl service.
I think it would be less expensive and easier to set up an owl system of buses for the rail lines instead of running the Metro 24/7. Of course, the Metrorail Owl routes could be complemented by service on some other key routes, especially those where there is already 21 or 22 hour service.
I'll recommend some increases in service and we'll go from there, we'll do PG first.
T18 rush every 10 minutes, non rush every 20 minutes
P12 rush only every 12-15 minutes with short trips leaving Southern Avenue Station to and from Addison Road.
C22 every 30 minutes during non rush hour, 20 minutes every rush.
F4 every 20 minutes during non rush hour, MAYBE 10 every rush.
Just a beginning.
Quote from: WES on December 04, 2008, 04:20:48 PM
I'll recommend some increases in service and we'll go from there, we'll do PG first.
T18 rush every 10 minutes, non rush every 20 minutes
P12 rush only every 12-15 minutes with short trips leaving Southern Avenue Station to and from Addison Road.
C22 every 30 minutes during non rush hour, 20 minutes every rush.
F4 every 20 minutes during non rush hour, MAYBE 10 every rush.
Just a beginning.
I agree with everything, but the F4 SHOULD be every 10 minutes. Also, get some night service for the Bowie and Laurel buses at least. The A12 should run every 30 minutes on Saturdays, and every 40 minutes on Sundays. Give the T18 some extended night service on weekends. Also, give the F4 some night service and run the F6 on weekends. Run the F8 every 30-40 minutes non rush instead of every hour and every 20 minutes rush.
Just my opinion.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 27, 2008, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on October 27, 2008, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tristan on October 10, 2008, 12:50:49 PM
24-hour service...I'm in favor of Owl buses if that's what it takes to get service on major corridors at all times.
I second that. Of course, you'd have to expand service hours in PG to operate past 10pm, but then there is the thing about late night rail service vs. owl service.
I think it would be less expensive and easier to set up an owl system of buses for the rail lines instead of running the Metro 24/7. Of course, the Metrorail Owl routes could be complemented by service on some other key routes, especially those where there is already 21 or 22 hour service.
I agree with you about instituting owl runs. When I worked for WMA Transit (BM-Before Metro) I drove owl runs on the "J" and "K" routes that operated between 11th & Pennsylvania Ave NW and Andrews AFB and I was always amazed how many people rode those busses. That is a great solution.
Quote from: WMAveteran on December 06, 2008, 12:58:43 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 27, 2008, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on October 27, 2008, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tristan on October 10, 2008, 12:50:49 PM
24-hour service...I'm in favor of Owl buses if that's what it takes to get service on major corridors at all times.
I second that. Of course, you'd have to expand service hours in PG to operate past 10pm, but then there is the thing about late night rail service vs. owl service.
I think it would be less expensive and easier to set up an owl system of buses for the rail lines instead of running the Metro 24/7. Of course, the Metrorail Owl routes could be complemented by service on some other key routes, especially those where there is already 21 or 22 hour service.
I agree with you about instituting owl runs. When I worked for WMA Transit (BM-Before Metro) I drove owl runs on the "J" and "K" routes that operated between 11th & Pennsylvania Ave NW and Andrews AFB and I was always amazed how many people rode those busses. That is a great solution.
The only problem is that these types of services in other cities haven't been all that successful from what I understand. In Boston, they ran buses after the subway closed on Friday and Saturday nights and that was discontinued due to low ridership when they needed to find routes to cut in a budget deficit.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 06, 2008, 12:42:29 PM
Quote from: WMAveteran on December 06, 2008, 12:58:43 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 27, 2008, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on October 27, 2008, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tristan on October 10, 2008, 12:50:49 PM
24-hour service...I'm in favor of Owl buses if that's what it takes to get service on major corridors at all times.
I second that. Of course, you'd have to expand service hours in PG to operate past 10pm, but then there is the thing about late night rail service vs. owl service.
I think it would be less expensive and easier to set up an owl system of buses for the rail lines instead of running the Metro 24/7. Of course, the Metrorail Owl routes could be complemented by service on some other key routes, especially those where there is already 21 or 22 hour service.
I agree with you about instituting owl runs. When I worked for WMA Transit (BM-Before Metro) I drove owl runs on the "J" and "K" routes that operated between 11th & Pennsylvania Ave NW and Andrews AFB and I was always amazed how many people rode those busses. That is a great solution.
The only problem is that these types of services in other cities haven't been all that successful from what I understand. In Boston, they ran buses after the subway closed on Friday and Saturday nights and that was discontinued due to low ridership when they needed to find routes to cut in a budget deficit.
And yet in Philadelphia the two owl routes are well utilized...
The only thing is that it would be difficult to have Metrorail Owl Service for the mere fact that:
a) It's rather suburban and travels a lot of miles outside of DC
b) I don't believe the lines follow the streets as closely as, let's say, SEPTA's Market Frankford Line or Broad Street Lines. Following the raillines may be difficult.
I do think there needs to be owl service on certain bus routes, though, to cover areas that need 24 hour service. The question is: does DC need that?
SEPTA's Owl Service was a "temporary" replacement for what was formerly 24 hour service, whereas the MBTA service was an "extension" of service hours. I think that is why SEPTA's was so sucessful.
I once drew out potential routes for WMATA night buses, but you are right, they don't follow the streets that well. What I would do is have timed transfers at Metro Center, and have buses operating on the following routes serving all inclusive stations:
1. Shady Grove-Metro Center-Gallery Place-Glenmont
2. Vienna-Metro Center-L'Enfant Plaza-New Carrollton
3. Franconia-Van Dorn Street-Huntington-Eisenhower Avenue-King Street-Pentagon-L'Enfant Plaza-Gallery Place-Metro Center
4. Metro Center-L'Enfant Plaza-Largo
5. Greenbelt-Gallery Place-Metro Center-L'Enfant Plaza-Branch Avenue
Routes 3 and 4 could be interlined if demand warranted or to better utilize buses. Another idea would be to split routes 1, 2, and 5 into separate routes as follows to make the routes shorter and perhaps more efficient:
1A: Shady Grove-Union Station
1B: Dupont Circle-Glenmont
2A: Vienna-L'Enfant Plaza
2B: Rosslyn or Farragut West-New Carrollton
5A: Greenbelt-L'Enfant Plaza via Metro Center
5B: Metro Center-Branch Avenue via Gallery Place
Tenleytown would not get bus service, nor would Arlington Cemetery. Not sure if any other stations are skipped, but I don't think they are.
As to whether DC actually needs all this is a separate question.
Here's some possibilities (remember the topic question btw - if it's low ridership, then WMATA could put 30' buses on them or whatever)
66 and 68 extend to Pentagon (I thought that's a great idea)
-and if not, then other possibilities would be the 50 line or N line
Restore the N11 line (King St to Branch Ave or maybe National Harbor), or not even N11 but maybe it could be called something else, like the NH-2 (I think that's what Ken suggested)
A George Mason Ave line via Skyline City and Ballston Station
(I'll post a link to Google Maps when I can figure out how)
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 08, 2008, 02:25:07 PM
Tenleytown would not get bus service, nor would Arlington Cemetery. Not sure if any other stations are skipped, but I don't think they are.
Couldn't Western at least shuttle a 30' Orion V or a DE37BRT between Friendship Heights and Tenleytown in this hypothetical? It at least doesn't cut Tenleytown out of the scheme of things and it'd be a straight run on Wisconsin that hurts nobody.
I wonder what the routing between Silver Spring and Union Station would be. That would be a bear and a half of a route with no major route linking the two.
As for George's post, the 66/68 to Pentagon and the hypothetical NH2 would make more than enough $en$e to run, but would the NH2 get people who right now are paying the $14 round-trip the water taxi between Alexandria and National Harbor? Would people go over for something slower but a fraction of the price?
Quote from: Scrabbleship on December 13, 2008, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 08, 2008, 02:25:07 PM
Tenleytown would not get bus service, nor would Arlington Cemetery. Not sure if any other stations are skipped, but I don't think they are.
Couldn't Western at least shuttle a 30' Orion V or a DE37BRT between Friendship Heights and Tenleytown in this hypothetical? It at least doesn't cut Tenleytown out of the scheme of things and it'd be a straight run on Wisconsin that hurts nobody.
I wonder what the routing between Silver Spring and Union Station would be. That would be a bear and a half of a route with no major route linking the two.
As for George's post, the 66/68 to Pentagon and the hypothetical NH2 would make more than enough $en$e to run, but would the NH2 get people who right now are paying the $14 round-trip the water taxi between Alexandria and National Harbor? Would people go over for something slower but a fraction of the price?
If the even 30s ran 24 hour service, that could be the Tenleytown link. If a station here and there is missed, I'm not sure it is a huge deal.
The Union Station to Silver Spring routing would not be a straight shot, but considering the hours of this service, I don't think it would be a huge problem. Perhaps I'll map out everything in my head out on to Google someday soon.
I think the NH2 is in an official plan somewhere; they do intend to create a National Harbor to VA route of some sort.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on December 13, 2008, 04:45:18 PM
As for George's post, the 66/68 to Pentagon and the hypothetical NH2 would make more than enough $en$e to run, but would the NH2 get people who right now are paying the $14 round-trip the water taxi between Alexandria and National Harbor? Would people go over for something slower but a fraction of the price?
Even if this NH2 covers an express fare, it would be $6 at the most for a round trip. Plus, IIRC, water taxis are slooowww. The bus would be way faster.
$6.20 - easy to forget that extra dime with a SmarTrip always at hand eh?
Union Station to Silver Spring? Express? I would just take North Cap. to Missouri to Georgia Ave. Shouldn't take too long to do something like that in the overnight hours.
Quote from: Perry on December 15, 2008, 04:13:09 PM
Union Station to Silver Spring? Express? I would just take North Cap. to Missouri to Georgia Ave. Shouldn't take too long to do something like that in the overnight hours.
But you skipped all the stations! I'd probably do this:
From "inner" Columbus Circle bus stop (Union Station)
Continue Columbus Circle
Continue Mass Ave WB
R North Capitol Street
R M Street
NEW YORK AVENUE STATION
L 3rd Street
L Florida Avenue
R North Capitol Street
R Rhode Island Avenue
R Station Roadway
RHODE ISLAND AVENUE STATION
Continue Station Roadway
L Rhode Island Avenue
R North Capitol Street
R Michigan Avenue
R Bunker Hill Road
R 9th Street
BROOKLAND-CUA STATION
Continue 9th Street
Make U Turn
R Michigan Avenue
L South Dakota Avenue
L Galloway Street
FORT TOTTEN STATION
Continue 1st Street
L Riggs Road
R North Capitol Street
L Blair Road
R Cedar Street
L Station Roadway
TAKOMA STATION
Continue Station Roadway
L Eastern Avenue
Continue Takoma Avenue
L Fenton Street
L Burlington Avenue
X Georgia Avenue, Continue EW Highway
R Colesville Road
R Wayne Avenue
R Station Roadway
SILVER SPRING METRO
The reverse would be nearly identical.
10th Street, NE is a more direct way from Rhode Island Ave to Brookland, but I doubt the people living there would want buses going down their street during the overnight hours. Additionally, I'm not so sure that the Takoma to Silver Spring routing fully avoids residential streets. Another option there would be for buses to double back to Blair Road, and take Blair to Eastern to Georgia.
That's why I asked if it was express. If it wasn't, then yeah your routing, but express would be the other way.
Quote from: Perry on December 15, 2008, 09:27:01 PM
That's why I asked if it was express. If it wasn't, then yeah your routing, but express would be the other way.
Seeing as the idea is to provide buses in lieu of Metrorail service overnight, I doubt an express bus would really be practical or heavily utilized.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 15, 2008, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: Perry on December 15, 2008, 04:13:09 PM
Union Station to Silver Spring? Express? I would just take North Cap. to Missouri to Georgia Ave. Shouldn't take too long to do something like that in the overnight hours.
But you skipped all the stations! I'd probably do this:
From "inner" Columbus Circle bus stop (Union Station)
Continue Columbus Circle
Continue Mass Ave WB
R North Capitol Street...[Cut to prevent a long Quote(see above)]...SILVER SPRING METRO
The reverse would be nearly identical.
10th Street, NE is a more direct way from Rhode Island Ave to Brookland, but I doubt the people living there would want buses going down their street during the overnight hours. Additionally, I'm not so sure that the Takoma to Silver Spring routing fully avoids residential streets. Another option there would be for buses to double back to Blair Road, and take Blair to Eastern to Georgia.
This is a better alternative:
From "inner" Columbus Circle bus stop (Union Station)
Continue Columbus Circle
Continue Mass Ave NE WB
R North Capitol Street
R H Street NE
L 6th Street NE
L Florida Avenue NE
NEW YORK AVENUE STATION
Continue Florida Avenue NE
R Eckington St NE
R R St NE
L 3rd St NE
R T St NE
L 4th St NE
R Rhode Island Avenue NE
RHODE ISLAND AVENUE STATION
Continue Rhode Island Avenue NE
L 12th St NE
L Monroe St NE
R 9th Street NE(Brookland-CUA Station RDWY)
BROOKLAND-CUA STATION
R Bunker Hill Road NE
R Michigan Avenue NE
L 13th St-Sargent Road NE
L South Dakota Avenue NE
L Galloway Street NE
FORT TOTTEN STATION
Continue to 1st Pl NE
L Riggs Road NE-Missouri Ave NW
R 3rd St NW
L Blair Rd NW
L Butternut St NW
R 4th St NW
R Cedar Street NW
L Station Roadway
TAKOMA STATION
Continue Station Roadway
L Eastern Avenue NW
Continue Takoma Avenue
L Fenton Street
L Wayne Avenue
SILVER SPRING METRO
This way would be more direct. 12th Street between RI Ave Sta. and Brookland is a better alternative to 10th St. The Takoma to Silver Spring routing goes mostly through Montgomery College and few residential streets.
The bus would not have to go in to RI Ave Sta. or any other station because there are or could be stops near the station entrances and there would be no need to transfer to any bus or rail. The stations that have their roadways served are for buses to continue on their way to the next station.
edited for spelling and to add two streets I missed
Some of those streets you chose are residential. I don't think buses should be going down residential streets at 3 AM.
Bus stops at the stations are easy to recognize, easy to locate, and are able to be well lit. The same cannot be said for "nearby locations".
I don't know, it may be more practical to run some that don't stop at every station. There may be more people headed to Silver Spring from Union Station than to say, Takoma.
Quote from: Perry on December 16, 2008, 12:56:09 AM
I don't know, it may be more practical to run some that don't stop at every station. There may be more people headed to Silver Spring from Union Station than to say, Takoma.
This raises an interesting question in my mind. Should WMATA ever create an overnight bustitution for its rail services, should they serve all stations, most stations, some stations, major stations, and should there be expresses since a trip from Metro Center to Shady Grove is pretty long. I think if such a bus service was popular enough, express routes could be implemented, but I'm not sure it would be feasible off the bat.
Quote from: Perry on December 16, 2008, 12:56:09 AM
I don't know, it may be more practical to run some that don't stop at every station. There may be more people headed to Silver Spring from Union Station than to say, Takoma.
The buses should serve every station just not run on every station roadway. There is no reason I see that a bus needs to go into a station when there is no point of transfer.
I would have the bus run from Metro Center to Silver Spring and skip Judiciary Square and Union Station and passing one block from Gallery Place.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 15, 2008, 10:55:35 PM
Some of those streets you chose are residential. I don't think buses should be going down residential streets at 3 AM.
Bus stops at the stations are easy to recognize, easy to locate, and are able to be well lit. The same cannot be said for "nearby locations".
Most of the residential streets listed are arterial streets and some at one time had buses traveling on them up to 3:00am.
6th street NE is residential but arterial
The streets mentioned in Eckington have residences but are also close to an industrial area and rail yard
12th street NE is mostly commercial with some residences on it
13th street-Sargent Road NE is residential but arterial
3rd street NW could be changed to the arterial North Capitol street-Blair road but both are residential
The streets between Takoma and Silver Spring are mostly through Mont. College and a business district
Reading these posts, I'm starting to see the fatal flaws of having the overnight Metrorail service "bustituted". There's so much emphasis on making sure that the stations are served that we seem to forget that a lot of people, particularly those who would rely on such a service to go out to the suburban areas, don't necessarily live within a short walking distance of the stations. Many (if not most) transfer to buses that would likely not be running. This can be the case with traffic generators that would be open those hours of the night, but aren't next door to train stations either.
I also agree that it's not necessary to have the buses go into every station, unless there are timed transfer opportunities with other routes (e.g., a "Red Line OWL" pulls into Fort Totton at 3:24 AM, for connections to the 3:30 K6).
Wouldn't it be a better idea to have overnight bus routes that are based off of the lines, but serve other nearby traffic generators along the way that may not be served by a route that warrants overnight service? This would, of course, be in addition to local Metrobus routes that could sustain overnight service.
Brandon, I understand your comment and, theoretically, that is the way to go, but that ... fractures the amount of people who need this service so you end up with 20 routes each carrying 3 people, which is why the late-night bus service failed in the first place (low ridership). At least providing owl bustitution puts people in a cab's shot of their dwellings, or maybe certain routes can be extended based on the arrival of the bustitutes.
I also don't think it would be necessarily prudent to bother with serving subway stations unless transfer opportunities exist or there happens to be no other suitable area. Think about it: people don't live at the stations, they live near the stations.
Stumbled upon a document this morning as I was browsing WMATA new web site:
Core Capacity Study (2002) (http://www.wmata.com/pdfs/planning/CoreCapacity_ExecSum.pdf) (387 KB PDF file). The document is dated 12 20 2001 internal creation date is 05 03 2006.
There are some goodies in it that are related to this thread. text on page 4, tables on pages 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11.
Oren,
Remember the discussion we had on about the possibility of installing a pocket track east of Federal Center SW some time back on either Subtalk or Subchat? In the document mentioned above, WMATA plans to put one between Eastern Market and Potomac Avenue. (Table page 8 ). I think their reasoning for putting a pocket track there is to replace the pocket track in D&G junction that will be reconfigured for a yard lead into a future yard and maintenance facility to be located on the Benning PEPCO power plant property.
Interesting. Perhaps the Silver Line could terminate there instead, it would make more sense than running out to S-A.
WMATAGMOAGH
Interesting. Perhaps the Silver Line could terminate there instead, it would make more sense than running out to S-A.
Perhaps. WMATA's primary explanation for building one there is for storage of gap trains. They may in the long run terminate Silver line trains at Largo and New Carrollton in lieu Blue and Orange line trains.
Well about the Union Station-Silver Spring line...it could be just a normal route...like the Red Line's version of the 38B (or the Red Line with a View).
But however it's named, this route seems like a good idea...to connect Union Station, Silver Spring, and all the neighborhoods/Metro Stations in between.
Well, the Red Line is already above ground primarily between Silver Spring and Union Station. LOL
Quote from: NewFlyer97BCT on January 08, 2009, 09:11:49 PM
Well about the Union Station-Silver Spring line...it could be just a normal route...like the Red Line's version of the 38B (or the Red Line with a View).
But however it's named, this route seems like a good idea...to connect Union Station, Silver Spring, and all the neighborhoods/Metro Stations in between.
But unlike in Arlington County, there is very little development alongside the route of the Metro line. Most of the surrounding neighborhoods have bus routes that feed into the Metro or go straight to downtown anyway.
I'd rather see better promotion of the existing routes that parallel Metrorail lines, such as the L1/L2/L4 and 11Y.
New idea:
Restore the 5B...extend it to Herndon/Monroe P&R
end of story
(btw I still support restoring the N11/N13 or something similar (just found out that it was discontinued on my birthday in 2004...happy birthday to me :( ))
Quote from: NewFlyer97BCT on May 01, 2009, 12:18:57 AM
New idea:
Restore the 5B...extend it to Herndon/Monroe P&R
end of story
(btw I still support restoring the N11/N13 or something similar (just found out that it was discontinued on my birthday in 2004...happy birthday to me :( ))
I was thinking the same thing about the N11, N13. If I had my own transit company, I would have a bus route that leaves Branch Ave to King Street and another that leaves Suitland to King Street. I would also have a bus that leaves Branch Ave to go to Franconia-Springfield. Just a thought.
Aside from the classic 66/68 to Pentagon, something across the Wilson Bridge, etc. etc. ideas, how about one that'd do well but hasn't been mentioned yet: Bringing back the 14's, but with a twist.
Instead of running them up River Road bring them up 355, add a Medical Center stop, and have them get on 495 there. With all the work at NIH and NNMC, it'd get the Virginia crowd there and would simplify things for Maryland people heading to McLean.
At the same time, how well would a hypothetical Montgomery County-Dulles express route do? It wouldn't necessarily have to be a WMATA route, but for some reason I think it might do well especially in western Montgomery where Dulles is closer than National or BWI.
Where would people park in VA? Other than not being able to use the shoulders to bypass the traffic on the Beltway, you need a viable park and ride lot where they can leave their cars, which is why the 14 was doomed last time. Going through Tysons Corner was grand, but only if you lived in MD and worked there, but to do the opposite was made impossible.
There needs to be agreements in place to allow several hundred cars to park in an area that is close to the highway and close to the residential so that you are not already driving 20 minutes to get there. At that point you may as well keep driving into MD.
The SmartMover did what you described during rush hours in one direction, and the other direction used River Road to go straight to Bethesda.
As Perry pointed out, without a place to park in Tysons and a way for the bus to move along the Beltway faster than private vehicles, there is little incentive to use the bus.
VDOT keeps toting the possibility of new transit options once these NOT...er...HOT lanes are completed...I wonder if some reiteration of the 14 is among those options?
I thought there was a massive P&R/Transportation Center in Tysons Corner. Was that too far off the route?
Where are the business centers in Tysons Corner anyway? Please pardon my ignorance, lol
There isn't anything in Tysons except that small transit center off the toll road. Tysons is the worst designed 'city' I've ever seen. Everything is divided by mega-multi lane roads that are like highways. Not pedestrian friendly at all. It's sprawled all over the place and the reason why transit doesn't work very well there. It takes too long to circulate through there.
What if they had a route that went from Pentagon to Rosslyn to D.C and decrease some train service so that the buses can support the trains a little bit better and ease the crowding. I don't know just a thought.