I was at the Gaithersburg P&R on 3/1/2011 and took photographs of MTA D4500 (170C) preparing to operate the 1:00 PM ICC express service to BWI/Marshall airport. This is the first day of service on this route and although the service is free to the public for the first two weeks, there were no passengers on the bus at this time.
Thanks for posting. How much space is there for luggage on these buses?
There is substantial under-floor space for luggage that will not fit in the inside overhead bins. The under-floor space is accessed through the side doors under the windows just like intercity coaches. When MTA advertised the service I read that drivers will assist with storing and retrieving luggage from the under-floor space. Here is another photograph also. You can see the handles for under-floor luggage access on the side under the"with ease" words on the wrap.
I saw 170C this afternoon at Shady Grove. I also saw a 202 pass through. This just hit me: The #201 fare will be less than the B30.
The 201 vs. B30 fares proves two things: MTA fares are too low and WMATA hiked B30 fares way too high for a quick hit.
Would the two routes ever really be in competition? It's a hike and a half from the west side of the Red Line to get to the B30 (or even to get to Union Station) and the park-and-ride-heavy nature of the route minus Shady Grove means tons of people who would never give the B30 a thought would be turning to transit. Even from Norbeck Road, it's a bit of a hike to get to the B30 (Y's->C2 or Y's->Red->Green).
direct bus trip from near my house to BWI for less $ than the B30. I am so gonna love this.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on March 01, 2011, 11:02:36 PM
The 201 vs. B30 fares proves two things: MTA fares are too low and WMATA hiked B30 fares way too high for a quick hit.
Would the two routes ever really be in competition? It's a hike and a half from the west side of the Red Line to get to the B30 (or even to get to Union Station) and the park-and-ride-heavy nature of the route minus Shady Grove means tons of people who would never give the B30 a thought would be turning to transit. Even from Norbeck Road, it's a bit of a hike to get to the B30 (Y's->C2 or Y's->Red->Green).
I think of the #201 as another option and not necessarily a competitor. I have nothing against the B30, but unless you're in that part of town (or on the Grren line), it can be quite a trek for lots of people in other areas. I personally am very happy about the 201 since the Gaithersburg P&R is nearly at my doorstep.
I agree with Wayne. To get between BWI and Bethesda, the 201 to the Red Line is far easier and assuming the route uses more of the ICC once the road is completed, going to be faster than taking the Red Line to the Green Line to the B30. The B30 is easy to get to if you live along the Green Line or if you come off another line, you aren't going very out of your way to get to it (i.e. from Capitol South). BWI is not my airport of choice (DCA is my first choice, then IAD) for a variety of reasons, but the 201 just made me far more willing to consider flying out of BWI for destinations served by Southwest than I used to be. I'm not sure how long Supershuttle takes to get to Bethesda or how much it costs, but a cab from BWI costs about $100. Getting someone to pick me up out there is also a challenge. Being picked up at Shady Grove or Greenbelt is a reasonable compromise between the two.
Jason, can you please explain how this "proves" that WMATA is charging too much for the B30? If I lived in Dupont, Columbia Heights, or Adams Morgan and wanted to get to BWI, I'd consider a trip taking just over an hour on transit costing less than 10 dollars to be a great deal, compared to the other options.
Quote from: WMAveteran on March 01, 2011, 06:48:15 PM
There is substantial under-floor space for luggage that will not fit in the inside overhead bins. The under-floor space is accessed through the side doors under the windows just like intercity coaches. When MTA advertised the service I read that drivers will assist with storing and retrieving luggage from the under-floor space. Here is another photograph also. You can see the handles for under-floor luggage access on the side under the"with ease" words on the wrap.
This is interesting. I thought they don't usually allow drivers to help out of liability concerns. Also, am I right in thinking that the compartments on NJT's OTR coaches are locked for security purposes?
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on March 02, 2011, 05:44:25 AM
I agree with Wayne. To get between BWI and Bethesda, the 201 to the Red Line is far easier and assuming the route uses more of the ICC once the road is completed, going to be faster than taking the Red Line to the Green Line to the B30. The B30 is easy to get to if you live along the Green Line or if you come off another line, you aren't going very out of your way to get to it (i.e. from Capitol South).
This is subject to the law of diminishing returns. From anywhere east of Stadium-Armory, it involves a bit of backtracking. From anywhere along the Blue or Orange in Virginia, the trip to Greenbelt can be an ordeal. I once did a Metro->B30->Light Rail trip from East Falls Church to Camden Yards and it felt a lot longer than it seems on paper.
QuoteJason, can you please explain how this "proves" that WMATA is charging too much for the B30? If I lived in Dupont, Columbia Heights, or Adams Morgan and wanted to get to BWI, I'd consider a trip taking just over an hour on transit costing less than 10 dollars to be a great deal, compared to the other options.
Assuming a regular Smartrip (no bus pass loaded):
Dupont Circle to BWI: $10.15/$9.95 peak, $8.25 off-peak via B30. $8.15/$7.95 peak, $7.60 off-peak via MARC.
Columbia Heights to BWI: $9.45/$9.25 peak, $7.65 off-peak via B30. $8.15/$7.95 peak, $7.60 off-peak via MARC.
Woodley Park (i/l/o Adams Morgan) to BWI: $10.30/$10.10 peak, $8.25 off-peak via B30. $8.30/$8.10 peak, $7.60 off-peak via MARC.
Though WMATA could've been a bit more gradual than nearly doubling the B30 (and 5A) fare, if anything this proves that MTA fares may be a bit too low in all honesty. I know there are theories that the O'Malley administration allegedly has not allowed for MARC/commuter bus fare hikes, even cutting service when both MARC riders and bus riders WANTED fare hikes, but this says a lot.
For the sake of round numbers and for tourists, the B30/5A should've been a nice, even $5.
QuoteThis is interesting. I thought they don't usually allow drivers to help out of liability concerns. Also, am I right in thinking that the compartments on NJT's OTR coaches are locked for security purposes?
I always thought in many cases it was the exact opposite. Back when I was in college, I was screamed at by an Adirondack Trailways driver for daring to unload my own luggage since he insisted he had to take care of it.
Jason, your analysis is wonderful, but it doesn't take into account the time involved to travel on each of those options or how one might value his or her time, so I remain unconvinced that the B30 is overpriced. Also, I'm not so sure I'd make a huge deal out of price differences. As a percentage of the entire cost of wherever it is you are traveling to, these differentials don't amount to much. For example, where the difference is 30 cents, the difference amounts to about 0.046% of a one way ticket price (based on round trip purchase) of what I expect to pay when I travel between the US and Israel. For those 3 dollar differentials, it amounts to less than half of one percent of the total cost. I'm not going to sweat that amount of money, I'm not sure others would either, especially if they value their time in some way and can gain in other ways as a result of how they value that. To be honest, depending on the circumstances of how much luggage I have, time of day, how quickly I need to get to my destination, I'd be willing to pay about 40-60 dollars for a taxi from BWI to my place (BWI is only slightly further from my house than IAD) since the drive from BWI to Bethesda is about 45 minutes and doing it by transit is at least double that, but I'm not willing to pay 100 dollars for a taxi.
Quote from: WMAveteran on March 01, 2011, 04:32:16 PM
I was at the Gaithersburg P&R on 3/1/2011 and took photographs of MTA D4500 (170C) preparing to operate the 1:00 PM ICC express service to BWI/Marshall airport. This is the first day of service on this route and although the service is free to the public for the first two weeks, there were no passengers on the bus at this time.
Nice pics. I'm planning on taking the 201 on a Sunday at some point before I head to Boston just to get a feel for the route. I've been waiting for this route to debut for nearly a year.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on March 02, 2011, 07:29:56 PM
Quote from: WMAveteran on March 01, 2011, 04:32:16 PM
I was at the Gaithersburg P&R on 3/1/2011 and took photographs of MTA D4500 (170C) preparing to operate the 1:00 PM ICC express service to BWI/Marshall airport. This is the first day of service on this route and although the service is free to the public for the first two weeks, there were no passengers on the bus at this time.
Nice pics. I'm planning on taking the 201 on a Sunday at some point before I head to Boston just to get a feel for the route. I've been waiting for this route to debut for nearly a year.
Me too! I plan to make a round-trip (or a "return" as the English say) on Friday all the way to the BWI MARC station.
Re: The B30 fares, I think they are a bit high, especialy for such an extreme jump. OK, 6 dollars isn't bad for tourists, but what about the workers at the airport? Even though SEPTA charges about $9 cash for the Airport Line from PHL to Center City (at least, I think that's the price now - it's a zone 6 fare), daily workers can get down there for the cost of a transpass, the cheapest Monthly/Weekly pass offered by SEPTA.
Of course, the City of Philadelphia may be subsidizing the Airport Line so that those passes would be accepted...does the B30 get a special subsidy?
It is great, though, that the 201 is providing a well needed link from the Northern Part of Montgomery County to the airport. Does the line serve Shady Grove yet?
I'm not so sure the $6 fare for the B30 (and 5A) are too high. I admit that the near 100% fare hike seems to be harsh, but I defnitely feel the $6 fare is not too expensive. I especially feel it's fair considering how much one could pay for a max metrorail trip. I agree that commuters should have a pass available to reduce the cost.
The 201 (and 202) are serving the Shade Grove station. They serve the east side of the Metro station as the enter from I-370 and MD 200 (The ICC).
I know the 5A carries airport workers, it was originally meant to be a reverse commuter friendly bus, not a shuttle to the airport. However, I don't think many airport workers, if any, would use the B30, my guess is most BWI workers are coming from Baltimore, not Washington.
Are passes accepted on the 5A and B30 despite the higher fares? If so, an airport worker could use that instead to get a lower fare.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on March 03, 2011, 02:48:57 PM
I know the 5A carries airport workers, it was originally meant to be a reverse commuter friendly bus, not a shuttle to the airport. However, I don't think many airport workers, if any, would use the B30, my guess is most BWI workers are coming from Baltimore, not Washington.
I've seen people in TSA uniforms on the B30 on more than one case; I don't know if there are floating TSA agents that can be assigned to more than one airport in an area, but this could prove some nominal proof of commuters using the B30.
QuoteAre passes accepted on the 5A and B30 despite the higher fares? If so, an airport worker could use that instead to get a lower fare.
Yes. In the paper pass era, it was pass + difference in [cash] base fare, nowadays with Smartrip passes $4.30 is taken off the declining balance instead of $6.00. Crunching some numbers, the 50 per ride bus-to-rail Smartrip discount pretty much takes away any motivation for a pass though.
Hey guys, I rode the ICC today, now that was one nice bus ride. Those MCI's are nice and fast. I got on at Gaitherburg and got off at BWI then caught it back.Not alot of people on just me and 2 drivers on the first trip, then on the second bus ride it was me, a driver and one passenger, But anyways here are some pics i got.
(http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u341/LIL_J_558/D2/IMG_1461-1.jpg)
(http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u341/LIL_J_558/D2/IMG_1459-1.jpg)
(http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u341/LIL_J_558/D2/IMG_1458-1.jpg)
(http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u341/LIL_J_558/D2/IMG_1491-1.jpg)
For a route with relatively low ridership, the word of mouth of this route seems to be surprising. I heard two people on an X2 this afternoon talking about the 201 and how it's a far better alternative to the B30 for people on the western end of the Red Line.
I rode #201 today also aboard #174C. Took the 9:05pm from BWI to Shady Grove with a total of 4 passengers with all 4 getting off at Shady Grove. I noticed that the Bus Operator skipped both Burtonsville P&R and the Norbeck P&R. :-\
I rode the ICC today (March 4, 2011) round-trip from Gaithersburg P & R to BWI Rail Station on 172C. The coach left Gaithersburg at 9:00 AM with me and two passengers carrying luggage who were flying Southwest from BWI. We arrived at BWI Marshall at 10:00 AM (almost 10 minutes early) even with stops at Shady Grove and Norbeck and Burtonsville P & R. The coach still has the "new vehicle" smell and the passenger compartment is well insulated from engine sounds. At highway speeds the engine is almost silent inside the coach. The coaches have 57 seats, a restroom, Cummins engines, Allison transmissions, electronic stability control, automatic traction control, ABS and 6-wheel disc brakes. There is a designated spot for Route 201 only directly in front of the BWI Rail Station.
On the return trip the coach (172C) left BWI Rail Station at 11:00 AM and we picked up one passenger at BWI Marshall who alighted at Shady Grove and like "rideonrulez" observed we did not stop at either Norbeck or Burtonsville P & R. Apparently, the drivers only stop there if there is a request on the return trip because the coach does not carry local passengers. The return trip arrived at Gaithersburg P & R almost 15 minutes early.
The real historic element of this new service is that the City of Gaithersburg receives its transit "props" for the first by having a transit route that has "Gaithersburg" as the actual destination sign. Every other transit route that serves Gaithersburg has a destination sign that never mentions the city's name (e.g., Lakeforest, Shady Grove, Kentlands) even though Gaithersburg is the third largest incorporated city in the state after Baltimore and Rockville. Prior to this even Germantown had a destination sign on transit routes and Germantown is not even an incorporated city - it's a zip code! This service rocks on so many levels!
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on March 02, 2011, 05:45:47 AM
Quote from: WMAveteran on March 01, 2011, 06:48:15 PM
There is substantial under-floor space for luggage that will not fit in the inside overhead bins. The under-floor space is accessed through the side doors under the windows just like intercity coaches. When MTA advertised the service I read that drivers will assist with storing and retrieving luggage from the under-floor space. Here is another photograph also. You can see the handles for under-floor luggage access on the side under the"with ease" words on the wrap.
This is interesting. I thought they don't usually allow drivers to help out of liability concerns. Also, am I right in thinking that the compartments on NJT's OTR coaches are locked for security purposes?
Here is a quote on luggage policy from the MTA schedule for the 201: "Bus drivers are required to assist passengers in the loading and unloading of luggage in the baggage compartment at each stop. This assistance includes opening and securing of the baggage bay doors and lifting items from the curb into the bus and from the bus back to the curb. Drivers shall make every effort to separate baggage by destination to expedite the unloading time at the drop off points."
Quote from: WMAveteran on March 04, 2011, 08:45:08 PM
The real historic element of this new service is that the City of Gaithersburg receives its transit "props" for the first by having a transit route that has "Gaithersburg" as the actual destination sign. Every other transit route that serves Gaithersburg has a destination sign that never mentions the city's name (e.g., Lakeforest, Shady Grove, Kentlands) even though Gaithersburg is the third largest incorporated city in the state after Baltimore and Rockville. Prior to this even Germantown had a destination sign on transit routes and Germantown is not even an incorporated city - it's a zip code! This service rocks on so many levels!
I'd think "GAITHERSBURG VIA SHADY GROVE METRO" might be a bit more telling though. Some people might not really know what Gaithersburg is, while others may know it, but don't know that the service is linking to the DC Metro, and think it only stops in some disconnected place in G-burg.
I think that's a good point. I imagine for both the #201 & 202, they'd definitely want to promote the fact that it serves a Metro station. On the website's main page it promotes the service as serving BWI and Fort Meade, but they probably should've made mention of the routes also serving the Shady Grove station. I saw some what I interpreted as good sign last week at Shady Grove. Last Tuesday I rode Metrorail home and while waiting for the 61 bus, a #201 came through and it definitely caught the attention of many people.
I highly agree - in fact, that's why I had to ask if it even went to Shady Grove Metro. The scheme is definitely eye-catching, though.
Quote from: btconet on March 08, 2011, 07:55:20 AM
Quote from: WMAveteran on March 04, 2011, 08:45:08 PM
The real historic element of this new service is that the City of Gaithersburg receives its transit "props" for the first by having a transit route that has "Gaithersburg" as the actual destination sign. Every other transit route that serves Gaithersburg has a destination sign that never mentions the city's name (e.g., Lakeforest, Shady Grove, Kentlands) even though Gaithersburg is the third largest incorporated city in the state after Baltimore and Rockville. Prior to this even Germantown had a destination sign on transit routes and Germantown is not even an incorporated city - it's a zip code! This service rocks on so many levels!
I'd think "GAITHERSBURG VIA SHADY GROVE METRO" might be a bit more telling though. Some people might not really know what Gaithersburg is, while others may know it, but don't know that the service is linking to the DC Metro, and think it only stops in some disconnected place in G-burg.
IAWTP
Today was my turn to take a ride on the #201. I did a roundtrip on #169C. The bus was indeed very quick to get up to speed, very quiet and still had the new smell. I boarded at Gaithersburg P & R. There were 5 passengers heading toward BWI. I rode to the BWI Rail station and watched a bit of NEC action until 169C returned for the return trip. On the way back we were about to exit I-95 at MD 32 when the B/O spotted lots of traffic on the ramp and he went down to the next exit (MD 216). On this trip was skipped Burtonsville and Norbeck P & R. There were 4 passengers on the return trip. Two pasengers got off at Shady Grove station. Myself and another guy who was taking a joy ride rode back to the Gaithersburg P & R. Very nice ride and I'm looking forward to using this service.
I took my ride on the 201 this afternoon to avoid taking the Penn Line. Rode 170C from Shady Grove to BWI. I was the sole person on the bus the entire trip. It was a pretty nice ride and got to see the ICC (Phase I) upclose. The ride was pretty smooth and got a chance to get some vid and some audio which I'll upload later. I snapped a shot of 169C coming into SG a little before 3pm.
169C at Shady Grove
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_dDXF1-CglM8/TXq_ikbVvAI/AAAAAAAAErQ/N5LGftB7evU/s800/DSCF9769.JPG)