Found this at http://www.metrobus-studies.com/K6/K6.htm. I must say thank heavens, it's about time they do something about this overcrowded and often late bus line!
The proposals are very interesting. They include some beefed up weekday peak service (although weekend service really shouldn't be forgotten), including a short turn at Northwest Apartments (?) while providing a K9 express option as well.
At first I had my reservations about the success an express route would have on this line, but considering that the K6 definitely has specific major stops along the line, it may work. I just wonder about cutting out the apartment complex as that is a huge generator of ridership. I guesss those people will have to rely on the short turn service (K5?) or route 20.
I'm really glad that WMATA is finally addressing the issues on their bus routes, making them more attractive to ride. I know the C buses (C2, 4) should be on the study list sometime soon, as well as other routes that I'm not completely familiar with.
On another somewhat relevant note, I'm very intrigued at how Takoma, PG, and Mont Co are trying to market the New Hampshire Avenue corridor as "The New Ave", a great place to visit and live. Seems like there are some areas that I really should check out when I'm in the area, such as the Zodiac Music Store so I can charge up my Smartrip Card with ease.
http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=4756
Here's information on other route enhancements planned for December 19th. This is great news! I should try the 28(X) one day.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on December 01, 2010, 01:42:53 PM
http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=4756
Here's information on other route enhancements planned for December 19th. This is great news! I should try the 28(X) one day.
I wish they could make the 28X bi-direction during rush hour and probably change the terminal to Skyline City to connect with other lines.
I like how they stick to the "9" for express routes. That was the case many years ago when the F9 ran from Lewisdale to downtown and the R9 ran express from Fort Totten to the PG County line. Now you have the S9, 79, X9. I think there was a K route that ran express on NH Ave. back before the Metro too, so it's sort of like back to the future. Sometimes what was operated many years ago should never have been changed as it was effective.
Quote from: Perry on December 02, 2010, 10:07:27 PM
I like how they stick to the "9" for express routes. That was the case many years ago when the F9 ran from Lewisdale to downtown and the R9 ran express from Fort Totten to the PG County line. Now you have the S9, 79, X9. I think there was a K route that ran express on NH Ave. back before the Metro too, so it's sort of like back to the future. Sometimes what was operated many years ago should never have been changed as it was effective.
Well, they'll run into a problem with the Y line and the Laurel lines.
Well, that's not insurmountable, at least as far as the Y bus is concerned (I can't speak for the Laurel routes). For the Y5/7/8/9, one could number them Y5, Y6, Y7, and Y8, with the routes like so:
- Y5: Georgia Avenue via Norbeck Park and Ride and Leisure World (same as before)
- Y6: Georgia Avenue via Leisure World (today's Y8 service)
- Y7: Georgia Avenue via Norbeck Park and Ride (same as before)
- Y8: Straight up Georgia Avenue with no side trips (today's Y9 service)
That would free up the Y9 designation for an express service. I can't speak for where express stops should be for most of the route, but I certainly wouldn't mind the bus expressing from Glenmont all the way to Hewitt, that's for sure.
By the way, does anyone know why there currently is no Y6 designation? It's always struck me as a bit strange that the designations skip 6 like that...
Suburban runs like the Ys, in my opinion, are generally not ideal for limited service because the routes rely on small numbers of passengers from many stops to be viable, wheras limited stop services require large numbers of passengers at a smaller number of stops to work well. I was not surprised there was no limited stop service on the Q line, and in the event they do a study on the Y line, would be surprised to see one there, too.
Quote from: SchuminWeb on December 03, 2010, 12:11:58 AM
By the way, does anyone know why there currently is no Y6 designation? It's always struck me as a bit strange that the designations skip 6 like that...
Well today's Ride On #41 was the Y6 Metrobus.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on December 02, 2010, 10:50:33 PM
Quote from: Perry on December 02, 2010, 10:07:27 PM
I like how they stick to the "9" for express routes. That was the case many years ago when the F9 ran from Lewisdale to downtown and the R9 ran express from Fort Totten to the PG County line. Now you have the S9, 79, X9. I think there was a K route that ran express on NH Ave. back before the Metro too, so it's sort of like back to the future. Sometimes what was operated many years ago should never have been changed as it was effective.
Well, they'll run into a problem with the Y line and the Laurel lines.
The Y9 will probably be the same exact route. You just take out the local stops and make it a Limited stop route. So it's almost there. The current Laurel Lines are planned to change route numbers in the next year or so...
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 03, 2010, 04:12:34 AM
Suburban runs like the Ys, in my opinion, are generally not ideal for limited service because the routes rely on small numbers of passengers from many stops to be viable, wheras limited stop services require large numbers of passengers at a smaller number of stops to work well. I was not surprised there was no limited stop service on the Q line, and in the event they do a study on the Y line, would be surprised to see one there, too.
I don't agree with your opinion. Yes the suburbs don't have the population density BUT for instance the Georgia Ave corridor is a good example of only certain areas that get high use along the route especially commercial/high density populated areas such as Aspen Hill and Wheaton. Just skip most of the stops in the single family home sections.
The Q is planned to have a "Q9" but Montgomery County is broke or else it probably would have been implemented already.
Quote from: rideonrulez on December 03, 2010, 08:37:23 AM
The Q is planned to have a "Q9" but Montgomery County is broke or else it probably would have been implemented already.
I thought that the Q9 was delayed because the funding came too late for a launch in FY11. I remember reading that the funding WILL be there for a late FY11-early FY12 launch and I'll be shocked if by this time next year it isn't at least with a date.
Actually the suburbs make perfect sense for Limited stop because you typically have wider roads and the ability to bypass stops easier, which makes for a very fast run into the core. Between shopping centers that could allow for park and rides and major intersections for transfers, it could be really viable.
Indeed - all you really have to do is link areas with lots of high-density residential with Metro stations and shopping, and you've got it. I could see a Y9 working this way beyond Glenmont:
* Glenmont
* Hewitt Avenue
* Aspen Hill Road
* Connecticut Avenue
* Bel Pre Road
* Leisure World Plaza
* Norbeck Road
* (A couple of spots in Olney)
* Montgomery General Hospital
Too spaced out?
Also, I agree that the wider roads would make for better express service. On the days I drive to work, I drive down 16th Street, and have seen the S9 try to navigate that road during rush hour. Not pretty. It gets stuck in traffic pretty badly sometimes, including getting stuck behind a local bus, which defeats the purpose of having an express if it's not going to be any faster than the local.
Then I think it's partly driver feelings as well: No one wants to get stuck behind a bus due to all the stops and difficulty passing, and I for one have seen a lot of people cut the buses off on 16th Street, for one, rather than get stuck behind them.
As a frequent Q line rider, a limited-stop Q route would be ideal to me personally, since I always ride all the way through Veirs Mill Road, and having to stop at many stops, sometimes I just wanna get home or maybe I'm even in a hurry. Let's say the Q9 is based on the Q2, going all the way from Shady Grove to Silver Spring and vice versa. Here's what I think the stops should be:
-Shady Grove Station
-Montgomery College (Rockville)
-Rockville Station
-First Street
-Edmonston Dr (?)
-Broadwood Drive
-Atlantic Ave
-Twinbrook Pkwy
-Aspen Hill Rd
-Parkland Dr / Gaynor Rd
-Randolph Rd
-Connecticut Ave
-Newport Mill Rd (?)
-University Blvd (east side)
-Wheaton Station
-Dennis Ave
-Forest Glen Rd
-Seminary Pl
-Cameron St (?)
-Silver Spring Station
So this is just a rough estimate on what I would suggest the Q9 should stop at. I know the portion between Shady Grove and Rockville Stations is very limited because besides Montgomery College, I rarely see a crowded stop and few people board or get off the bus around there. I wanted to say Gude Dr but like I said, not enough density for a limited stop route. As for the others, I usually see a whole bunch of people board or get off the bus at those stops. Whether or not the spacing matters, I would go with the list I made.
Points taken. Obviously anecdotal observations are inferior to actual ridership statistics, but is ridership really that low between the major ridership generators on Georgia Avenue? (Full disclosure, I think I've been on the Ys north of Wheaton once in my life.)
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 05, 2010, 04:08:46 AM
Points taken. Obviously anecdotal observations are inferior to actual ridership statistics, but is ridership really that low between the major ridership generators on Georgia Avenue?
I was mainly thinking based on where the high-density residential and shopping areas are. Would love to see, however, where the high-ridership Y stops are based on numbers.
Quote(Full disclosure, I think I've been on the Ys north of Wheaton once in my life.)
You're not missing much.
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on December 04, 2010, 11:36:29 AM
As a frequent Q line rider, a limited-stop Q route would be ideal to me personally, since I always ride all the way through Veirs Mill Road, and having to stop at many stops, sometimes I just wanna get home or maybe I'm even in a hurry. Let's say the Q9 is based on the Q2, going all the way from Shady Grove to Silver Spring and vice versa. Here's what I think the stops should be:
-Shady Grove Station
-Montgomery College (Rockville)
-Rockville Station
-First Street
-Edmonston Dr (?)
-Broadwood Drive
-Atlantic Ave
-Twinbrook Pkwy
-Aspen Hill Rd
-Parkland Dr / Gaynor Rd
-Randolph Rd
-Connecticut Ave
-Newport Mill Rd (?)
-University Blvd (east side)
-Wheaton Station
-Dennis Ave
-Forest Glen Rd
-Seminary Pl
-Cameron St (?)
-Silver Spring Station
So this is just a rough estimate on what I would suggest the Q9 should stop at. I know the portion between Shady Grove and Rockville Stations is very limited because besides Montgomery College, I rarely see a crowded stop and few people board or get off the bus around there. I wanted to say Gude Dr but like I said, not enough density for a limited stop route. As for the others, I usually see a whole bunch of people board or get off the bus at those stops. Whether or not the spacing matters, I would go with the list I made.
I like your list of stops, but I think I'd add Gude Drive as a limited stop and maybe eliminate some of the Veirs Mill stops. I agree the Gude is one of the lighter stops and for that reason I'd add. it. Gude Drive is sort of midway between Montgomery College and Shady Grove station and I think it would help more folks than it would inconvenience as dwell times would be almost guaranteed to be short. I have a tough time with having limiteds not stop on Georgia Ave (like Ellsworth N/B and Colesville or Cameron S/B) despite the close proximity to Silver Spring station.
Quote from: Perry on December 02, 2010, 10:07:27 PM
I like how they stick to the "9" for express routes. That was the case many years ago when the F9 ran from Lewisdale to downtown and the R9 ran express from Fort Totten to the PG County line. Now you have the S9, 79, X9. I think there was a K route that ran express on NH Ave. back before the Metro too, so it's sort of like back to the future. Sometimes what was operated many years ago should never have been changed as it was effective.
Historically speaking, the route designations reflect the designations used by WMATA precursor DC Transit. DCT used even numbers for regular local routes (U2, U4, U6, D2, D4, C2, C4, etc.) and odd numbers to designate express, limited stop and rush hour turn back service (L1, X9, S3, etc.). WMATA seems to have continued the DC Transit tradition.
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on December 04, 2010, 11:36:29 AM
As a frequent Q line rider, a limited-stop Q route would be ideal to me personally, since I always ride all the way through Veirs Mill Road, and having to stop at many stops, sometimes I just wanna get home or maybe I'm even in a hurry. Let's say the Q9 is based on the Q2, going all the way from Shady Grove to Silver Spring and vice versa. Here's what I think the stops should be:
-Shady Grove Station
-Montgomery College (Rockville)
-Rockville Station
-First Street
-Edmonston Dr (?)
-Broadwood Drive
-Atlantic Ave
-Twinbrook Pkwy
-Aspen Hill Rd
-Parkland Dr / Gaynor Rd
-Randolph Rd
-Connecticut Ave
-Newport Mill Rd (?)
-University Blvd (east side)
-Wheaton Station
-Dennis Ave
-Forest Glen Rd
-Seminary Pl
-Cameron St (?)
-Silver Spring Station
So this is just a rough estimate on what I would suggest the Q9 should stop at. I know the portion between Shady Grove and Rockville Stations is very limited because besides Montgomery College, I rarely see a crowded stop and few people board or get off the bus around there. I wanted to say Gude Dr but like I said, not enough density for a limited stop route. As for the others, I usually see a whole bunch of people board or get off the bus at those stops. Whether or not the spacing matters, I would go with the list I made.
This is where my criticism of suburban limiteds come from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but between Rockville Metro and Aspen Hill Road (and maybe as far east as Parkland), isn't this proposed limited stopping at every stop or every other stop? Riders might think they are getting somewhere faster because the bus is limited, and I've certainly fallen for that trick a few times in New York (even over longer distances, waited for a limited and never passed any of the locals I passed on boarding), but I'm not sure that it really is a service enhancement to have limited service under that circumstance.
I would think it depends on how the runs are scheduled (plus traffic conditions along Veirs Mill).
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 06, 2010, 03:39:52 AM
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on December 04, 2010, 11:36:29 AM
As a frequent Q line rider, a limited-stop Q route would be ideal to me personally, since I always ride all the way through Veirs Mill Road, and having to stop at many stops, sometimes I just wanna get home or maybe I'm even in a hurry. Let's say the Q9 is based on the Q2, going all the way from Shady Grove to Silver Spring and vice versa. Here's what I think the stops should be:
-Shady Grove Station
-Montgomery College (Rockville)
-Rockville Station
-First Street
-Edmonston Dr (?)
-Broadwood Drive
-Atlantic Ave
-Twinbrook Pkwy
-Aspen Hill Rd
-Parkland Dr / Gaynor Rd
-Randolph Rd
-Connecticut Ave
-Newport Mill Rd (?)
-University Blvd (east side)
-Wheaton Station
-Dennis Ave
-Forest Glen Rd
-Seminary Pl
-Cameron St (?)
-Silver Spring Station
So this is just a rough estimate on what I would suggest the Q9 should stop at. I know the portion between Shady Grove and Rockville Stations is very limited because besides Montgomery College, I rarely see a crowded stop and few people board or get off the bus around there. I wanted to say Gude Dr but like I said, not enough density for a limited stop route. As for the others, I usually see a whole bunch of people board or get off the bus at those stops. Whether or not the spacing matters, I would go with the list I made.
This is where my criticism of suburban limiteds come from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but between Rockville Metro and Aspen Hill Road (and maybe as far east as Parkland), isn't this proposed limited stopping at every stop or every other stop? Riders might think they are getting somewhere faster because the bus is limited, and I've certainly fallen for that trick a few times in New York (even over longer distances, waited for a limited and never passed any of the locals I passed on boarding), but I'm not sure that it really is a service enhancement to have limited service under that circumstance.
I agree with WMATAGMOAGH. I think a limited stop "Q" should have about half as many stops as "NEWFLYER" proposes. I would place stops at Shady Grove, Montgomery College, Rockville Station, Twinbrook Parkway, Randolph Road, Connecticut Avenue, Wheaton Station, Forest Glen Road and Silver Spring Station.
Quote from: WMAveteran on December 07, 2010, 12:19:17 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 06, 2010, 03:39:52 AM
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on December 04, 2010, 11:36:29 AM
As a frequent Q line rider, a limited-stop Q route would be ideal to me personally, since I always ride all the way through Veirs Mill Road, and having to stop at many stops, sometimes I just wanna get home or maybe I'm even in a hurry. Let's say the Q9 is based on the Q2, going all the way from Shady Grove to Silver Spring and vice versa. Here's what I think the stops should be:
-Shady Grove Station
-Montgomery College (Rockville)
-Rockville Station
-First Street
-Edmonston Dr (?)
-Broadwood Drive
-Atlantic Ave
-Twinbrook Pkwy
-Aspen Hill Rd
-Parkland Dr / Gaynor Rd
-Randolph Rd
-Connecticut Ave
-Newport Mill Rd (?)
-University Blvd (east side)
-Wheaton Station
-Dennis Ave
-Forest Glen Rd
-Seminary Pl
-Cameron St (?)
-Silver Spring Station
So this is just a rough estimate on what I would suggest the Q9 should stop at. I know the portion between Shady Grove and Rockville Stations is very limited because besides Montgomery College, I rarely see a crowded stop and few people board or get off the bus around there. I wanted to say Gude Dr but like I said, not enough density for a limited stop route. As for the others, I usually see a whole bunch of people board or get off the bus at those stops. Whether or not the spacing matters, I would go with the list I made.
This is where my criticism of suburban limiteds come from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but between Rockville Metro and Aspen Hill Road (and maybe as far east as Parkland), isn't this proposed limited stopping at every stop or every other stop? Riders might think they are getting somewhere faster because the bus is limited, and I've certainly fallen for that trick a few times in New York (even over longer distances, waited for a limited and never passed any of the locals I passed on boarding), but I'm not sure that it really is a service enhancement to have limited service under that circumstance.
I agree with WMATAGMOAGH. I think a limited stop "Q" should have about half as many stops as "NEWFLYER" proposes. I would place stops at Shady Grove, Montgomery College, Rockville Station, Twinbrook Parkway, Randolph Road, Connecticut Avenue, Wheaton Station, Forest Glen Road and Silver Spring Station.
I highly agree with both of you. I'm not sure how the "Qs" are working now, but in my experience there were a lot of "long distance" riders that rode particularly from Rockville to Wheaton (and beyond), with the stops listed above as the other major stops. No problem with having a Q super express. It would be great and "better" link the southern and northern ends of Montgomery County!
Quote from: WMAveteran on December 07, 2010, 12:19:17 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on December 06, 2010, 03:39:52 AM
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on December 04, 2010, 11:36:29 AM
As a frequent Q line rider, a limited-stop Q route would be ideal to me personally, since I always ride all the way through Veirs Mill Road, and having to stop at many stops, sometimes I just wanna get home or maybe I'm even in a hurry. Let's say the Q9 is based on the Q2, going all the way from Shady Grove to Silver Spring and vice versa. Here's what I think the stops should be:
-Shady Grove Station
-Montgomery College (Rockville)
-Rockville Station
-First Street
-Edmonston Dr (?)
-Broadwood Drive
-Atlantic Ave
-Twinbrook Pkwy
-Aspen Hill Rd
-Parkland Dr / Gaynor Rd
-Randolph Rd
-Connecticut Ave
-Newport Mill Rd (?)
-University Blvd (east side)
-Wheaton Station
-Dennis Ave
-Forest Glen Rd
-Seminary Pl
-Cameron St (?)
-Silver Spring Station
So this is just a rough estimate on what I would suggest the Q9 should stop at. I know the portion between Shady Grove and Rockville Stations is very limited because besides Montgomery College, I rarely see a crowded stop and few people board or get off the bus around there. I wanted to say Gude Dr but like I said, not enough density for a limited stop route. As for the others, I usually see a whole bunch of people board or get off the bus at those stops. Whether or not the spacing matters, I would go with the list I made.
This is where my criticism of suburban limiteds come from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but between Rockville Metro and Aspen Hill Road (and maybe as far east as Parkland), isn't this proposed limited stopping at every stop or every other stop? Riders might think they are getting somewhere faster because the bus is limited, and I've certainly fallen for that trick a few times in New York (even over longer distances, waited for a limited and never passed any of the locals I passed on boarding), but I'm not sure that it really is a service enhancement to have limited service under that circumstance.
I agree with WMATAGMOAGH. I think a limited stop "Q" should have about half as many stops as "NEWFLYER" proposes. I would place stops at Shady Grove, Montgomery College, Rockville Station, Twinbrook Parkway, Randolph Road, Connecticut Avenue, Wheaton Station, Forest Glen Road and Silver Spring Station.
Now that I think of it, that sounds like a better plan. I just didn't want to make a list with too few stops, but if having less stops is better, then I really can't complain about that.
I would still say that my list should be the nominees for the express stops, but the best of that list would be what WMAveteran said (maybe add Parklawn Dr / Gaynor Rd to that list)