[size=78%]http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/2010/11/wal-mart-to-open-four-dc-stores.html[/size]
[/size]All 4 locations, most in or near areas with a lack of retail that could be classified as "food deserts", will have full grocery sections. This alone a) reaches out to the community and b) might quell the inevitable fit UFCW will throw on Giant and Safeway's behalf given they're in areas they've ignored for decades.[size=78%]
I wonder where they'll put these stores let alone how big they will be. I can pretty much bank on NE and SE having 2 of the 4.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on November 18, 2010, 07:43:57 AM
I wonder where they'll put these stores let alone how big they will be. I can pretty much bank on NE and SE having 2 of the 4.
Half-right. Two in dissimilar parts of NW (New Jersey Ave near H St, Georgia & Missouri), one in NE (near New York Ave & Bladensburg Road), one in SE (East Capitol and 58th St). The New Jersey Ave site is on a vacant lot owned by the district and leased to a developer that would face penalties unless otherwise developed, all the others are in areas where retail and grocery are anywhere between mediocre to non-existent.
I would put money on at least one being two stories to work with limited footprints, Walmart has some newly built locations in the NYC and LA suburbs that are two stories and they tested it to make their Albany, NY location into a Supercenter via filling the former Sam's Club behind it. Those who have been to Target in Columbia Heights or Wheaton know what to expect, cart escalators and all.
I know exactly what to expect with Walmart: low wages and small, locally owned businesses put out of business. Hopefully these proposals remain just proposals and not reality.
They just approved another Wal-Mart in Baltimore to be in Remington. I can eventually see the one in South Baltimore closing when they build the one in North Baltimore.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on November 18, 2010, 08:17:22 AM
I know exactly what to expect with Walmart: low wages and small, locally owned businesses put out of business. Hopefully these proposals remain just proposals and not reality.
Judging by the locations picked, I don't think many people would lose save for the tiny little mini-marts that lack fresh groceries and provide insane markup on other foods. NE and SE have a lack of proper grocery stores to begin with and both the New York Ave and Capitol Heights sites are in areas that could be classified as "food deserts". The Georgia and Missouri site has a food desert to its south and a somewhat pitiful Safeway to its north. The New Jersey Ave location is just the District wanting to develop land and will anchor a mixed use development, but is in an area that has Safeway's Mid-Atlantic flagship (built 2008) and is within longer walking distance to a to-open Harris Teeter and a just-announced Giant on H Street NE.
Usually I would have pity on Mom & Pop, but in the case of these neighborhoods Mom & Pop have been practicing extortion on the vulnerable for quite some time.
There will be protests to keep them out from various organizations (mainly labor unions), but Wal-Mart is most likely coming. If the one in Fort Lincoln (I have an idea where that one would exactly be), might actually become a supercenter and that would be Wal-Mart's blow to PG which has a Wal-Mart about 5 minutes away and was supposed to be a supercenter. Actually they have talked about some retail going into that area for a while (Fort Lincoln), it has a lot of space to put a lot of retail.
Quote from: WES on November 18, 2010, 08:45:08 AM
There will be protests to keep them out from various organizations (mainly labor unions), but Wal-Mart is most likely coming. If the one in Fort Lincoln (I have an idea where that one would exactly be), might actually become a supercenter and that would be Wal-Mart's blow to PG which has a Wal-Mart about 5 minutes away and was supposed to be a supercenter. Actually they have talked about some retail going into that area for a while (Fort Lincoln), it has a lot of space to put a lot of retail.
The more I think about it, the more UFCW's legs have been rotting from gangrene as of late on the grocery side. They'll protest, but it isn't like they've been doing much of a service to customers in NE, SE, and even NW east of 14th St with there being so few grocery stores, the ones being around often lacking compared to stores elsewhere. Giant, Safeway, and Shoppers could've defended their turf but chose to let it lay fallow. Non-union is better than nothing.
Looking at this from a grocery lens, how is it that non-union chains like Harris Teeter and Wegmans provide better customer service than the unionized chains? How is it that at a non-union chain I find more open registers than at unionized chains? I know Harris Teeter and Wegmans are far more similar to the unionized chains in terms of pay and do offer benefits and are a galaxy away from Walmart, but that says a lot.
I can't speak for Harris Teeter, but from what I hear and the proof is evident that Wegmans treat their employee very well, not only in pay but in other areas. Wegman's has been in the top 5 of "The Best Employers To Work For" for the longest time. I am pretty sure that HarrisTeeter has the same thinking. If you treat your employees well, number one they are most likely not to unionize and too they will enjoy coming to work. The Wegmans up the street from me, the people there are so helpful, overly helpful. Though it's not the same but where I used to work, they don't pay their people well, they don't really treat them that great and the result is you hear a lot of "I can't wait to leave blahblah" and "McDonalds pays more than what I am getting here". It just boils down to how the employer treats their employees, in that the better they treat their employees, the more and better production they will get from them. A lot of these well established businesses nowadays basically think that their brand loyalty will always make them money, so do they have to treat their employees well, no, because they will always have someone to take that employee's place if that employee decides to leave and people will always buy from them as long as that name recognition is out there.
And actually what PG and Montgomgery did (passing a law limiting the size of "big box" stores) won't really help, in that Target and now Wal-Mart got smart to put groceries in their smaller stores. Target realized that ok they are going to limit the size of our stores so we don't compete with Giant and Safeway, so we will put groceries in our smaller stores, we might have less product in other areas, but we'll make that up with the food we have.
There were definitely other reasons why both passed those laws but I am not going to go into all the reasons why PG and Montgomery did it. I am kind of surprised that PG passed a law like that..........maybe Wal-Mart and Target didn't pay enough, if you know what I mean ;D
I've shopped at Giant and Wegmans plenty of times, I see no noticeable differences between the stores in terms of interactions I have with their employees.
Quote from: WES on November 18, 2010, 09:43:58 AMA lot of these well established businesses nowadays basically think that their brand loyalty will always make them money, so do they have to treat their employees well, no, because they will always have someone to take that employee's place if that employee decides to leave and people will always buy from them as long as that name recognition is out there.
Bingo.
I used to work at Walmart some years ago, and I heard multiple times that the customers would complain but they would be back (i.e. "whatever" on what they think), and the employees were told many times how expendable they were. Not a fun place to work.
Quote from: WES on November 18, 2010, 09:54:25 AM
And actually what PG and Montgomgery did (passing a law limiting the size of "big box" stores) won't really help, in that Target and now Wal-Mart got smart to put groceries in their smaller stores.
PG has a law on the books on that? I thought the only reason why the Landover Walmart wasn't a supercenter was because there's a Safeway on the other side of the parking lot and that Walmart by principle won't go Supercenter if a grocery store is within a half-mile's radius. If there was one, how did IKEA and Wegmans get stores approved?
Arlington also has one on the books (Wegmans wanted in there too). The Montgomery one was pretty much Doug Duncan posturing to UFCW and backfired as Fairfax, Frederick, and even Loudoun counties began to get business from MoCo people let alone how the "Woodmore" Wegmans is getting a decent amount of MoCo business which is why they approved one for Germantown.
I think Wal-Mart knew there was a Safeway not too far from them, not to mention a Giant down the street. I don't know the real reason why they didn't make it a supercenter, but it sounds like PG passing a law to limit the size of said "big box" stores. I can't remember if it was passed or not. There was also outcry from the community about the store being too big also. I don't think the location of a supermarket was the reason why Wal-Mart decided to make it a regular Wal-Mart as opposed to a Wal-mart supercenter. There is a Wal-Mart supercenter right across from a Weis supermarket in Harrisburg and also there is another Weis about 5 minutes away from that one.
Looking at the Wegman's it looks like the size of a normal Target, maybe a little bigger and also PG might have wanted upscale shopping stores so bad that Wegman's got a waiver from PG County. PG is trying to get upscale stores big time and Woodmore is basically their prayers answered.
Also Fairfax is smart to never get one passed, as they building a Wal-Mart supercenter along route 1, north of an existing Wal-Mart and north of Mount Vernon. Also a Wegman's is planned not too far from that Wal-Mart, in Alexandria. Those will drive in more business, some from PG County, especially the Southern part.
I can understand Arlington keeping the size of a Wal-Mart small, there is not much land left in Arlington to build anything.
Quote from: WES on November 18, 2010, 12:29:33 PM
I think Wal-Mart knew there was a Safeway not too far from them, not to mention a Giant down the street. I don't know the real reason why they didn't make it a supercenter, but it sounds like PG passing a law to limit the size of said "big box" stores. I can't remember if it was passed or not. There was also outcry from the community about the store being too big also.
I'm surprised they didn't make an outcry about how massive the parking lot-to-store size ratio is over in Landover. They could've built out towards the highway and still have had decent parking since they more than had the room since a Walmart doesn't need the parking the old Capital Plaza had on hand. I've been to many Walmarts and never have I seen a parking lot that HUGE.
From the looks of that Safeway, it looks like it preceeded the Walmart. Walmart probably knew to get rid of them would mean having to deal with UFCW and everything and wasn't worth the battle.
QuoteIn the case of the I don't think the location of a supermarket was the reason why Wal-Mart decided to make it a regular Wal-Mart as opposed to a Wal-mart supercenter. There is a Wal-Mart supercenter right across from a Weis supermarket in Harrisburg and also there is another Weis about 5 minutes away from that one.
Was the Weis there first or was the Walmart a smaller store that expanded to a Supercenter? From my own experience, they base it on what exists when it was built vs. what the status quo is and, knowing Weis, I wouldn't be shocked if they wanted to save their own turf. They built a Supercenter in Glenmont, NY (just south of Albany) a half-mile from a Price Chopper (which is just dreadful) and both have peacefully coexisted for a decade.
A good local case is in Leesburg where the Walmart there refuses to go Supercenter with a Super Target right across the US 15 bypass and a Shoppers right across Edwards Ferry Rd from said Super Target.
Without knowing exactly looks like it happened around the same time. The supercenter looks rather new and also there is a Sam's club right next to it and that shopping center could have been remodeled like so many have had and might have been there for a while.
And also part of a company's decision on where to put a store where they plan to do so, is doing the research of what's in the area and its impact on the area they plan to serve. They have to know who their competition will be, what dwellings are in the area, what major thorofares are close to where they are planning to open a store. Along that research they have to factor if the area is so void of what they are planning to serve, would factor into what type or how big of a store they should put there. If Wal-Mart did their research but missed that Safeway and the Giant, then whoever did their research did a bad job. To a point, it's business 101.
The Mayor of Las Vegas has an announcement to be revealed on Dec. 2 that he says will bring 750 non construction jobs to the city. It's going to be done on the property of the existing City Hall which is being replaced. There are plenty of casinos right in downtown, so I jokingly said it will be a Walmart. Seeing how they seem to be expanding into urban areas, I'm wondering if that's what it really is. Although, I don't know if there is enough land for what they usually need unless it's going to be a multi-story unit.
I had actually spoken with someone from the city's property unit because they wanted ridership projections from our new transit terminal because a developer was looking to build a Target or a Walmart or something like that but it sounded like it was going to be closer to where we are located. Now, I'm really curious!
I welcome any type of development that brings in tax revenues.
In the press releases, Wal-Mart did say that to get into urban areas, their stores will be smaller, so there might be a chance that a Wal-Mart maybe coming there. I remember the one in downtown White Plains, in New York isn't that big. and it was at least two stories (I think it was a Wal-Mart, or Target or Kmart, but I think it was a Wal-Mart). Also downtown space shouldn't be a reason to downsize a store, we all know the Kmart in City Center Philly is decent sized, just depends on the space.
Quote from: WES on November 19, 2010, 09:49:37 AM
In the press releases, Wal-Mart did say that to get into urban areas, their stores will be smaller, so there might be a chance that a Wal-Mart maybe coming there. I remember the one in downtown White Plains, in New York isn't that big. and it was at least two stories (I think it was a Wal-Mart, or Target or Kmart, but I think it was a Wal-Mart). Also downtown space shouldn't be a reason to downsize a store, we all know the Kmart in City Center Philly is decent sized, just depends on the space.
That would be a Target in White Plains. It's proximity to the Transcenter makes it a good break spot during Bee Line (and CT Transit Stamford) fantrips. Similar situation with the Atlantic Avenue Target in Brooklyn on top of the major transportation hub there.
The Midtown Manhattan KMart in NYC near Penn Station is bigger than the one inside The Gallery in Philly. Urban stores are a niche that Walmart is way late to the party in doing in the states, they've already put good models in place for urban stores...in China.
To backtrack to the supermarkets and Walmart topic, there are some cases of a Walmart and a grocery store anchoring the same plaza; the Fair Lakes development in Fairfax has a Walmart and a Bloom nearly next to each other (those who have been to Fair Lakes know it's huge enough to also have a Target). In Troy, NY, a Walmart was built next to a Price Chopper supermarket while in New Milford, CT a Walmart moved into a former Bradlees space in a plaza with one of the earliest Super Stop & Shop locations.
Funny thing you mentioned Bradlees, because where Wal-Mart sits at Capital Plaza, there used to be a Bradlees there. I remember Bradlees fondly, it was here, but not for long. What made things funnier was that when Bradlees left the DC area, Hechinger took that spot over and then they went out of business. Montgomgery Ward was on the other side and well they're gone also. And practically two of the three went out of business, because of Wal-Mart...........and Target.
Target replaced the Montgomery Ward's at Wheaton Plaza too as well as I think the GC Murphys at PG Plaza.
Almost all of our Walmart's out here are Supercenters. I can't think of any that are really near a grocery store, but there is one directly across the street from a Costco and a Best Buy and a new Target opened up about a mile south of there. That Wal Mart actually has the only non-drive in Sonic that I know of. It's one area I would not go near between now and Christmas!
I find that you can do better at a regular grocery store using their specials and coupons than Wal Mart because you can't really gauge what their sales are. However, for other things, they work out just fine. It seems like there is enough business for everyone. If a mom and pop shop gets axed because of them, then that would have been a matter of time anyway because obviously they mark up their prices and carry a smaller inventory due to their own cost constraints.
I realize that most of the WalMarts in the DC area are not Supercenters, but my wife and I noticed that the condition of the stores tend to be a bit on the shabby side. Then, we've noticed that the WalMart we've gone into outisde of the DC area tend to be very nice. Most recently we were in a Supercenter in Beckley, WV and again, the condition of the store seemed to be immaculate.
Yeah, the first supercenter I was in was near Williamsburg I think several years ago. It was very clean and spacious compared to the regular ones. The worst one I had been to was the old one in Manassas on Sudley just off of I-66. That one is closed because there is a new SuperCenter at Manassas Mall. The ones out here get pretty rundown because they are just so crowded, so they end up looking like the regular ones back east. The one I like the best is the one that's across from the Costco on the edge of Centennial Hills...which happens to be the north end of Route 103.
It's almost as if the DC area Walmarts are second-class , compared to their stores outside of the DC area. I hear there's a supercenter in La Plata and I'm curious about it's appearance, but not curious enough to drive down there:-) . The funny thing is that the Walmsrt in Germantown recently got a facelift. Sure, it looks better, but I still think it doesn't look as good as the Walmarts outside of the DC area. Go figure.
The Wal-Mart in Germantown is the dumpiest one I have ever been too. The best one will go to Port Orange, Florida's Supercenter!!
Quote from: rideonrulez on November 20, 2010, 07:45:46 AM
The Wal-Mart in Germantown is the dumpiest one I have ever been too. The best one will go to Port Orange, Florida's Supercenter!!
I've been to Germantown and Landover. Landover felt much, much dumpier.
My review of the store in Germantown:
http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/journal/permalink.php?id=839
Basically, the store looked horrible, and was just overall poorly run and in poor condition. I was in there once post-remodel, and it certainly does look better than it used to, but I still avoid that store because of parking and service issues.
Landover looks nice as a newer store, but it's obviously too small for what it serves. I've never gotten a close parking space there, and the checkout lines are always long. And the fact that they constantly have private security on the property creeps me out a bit.
Also, having formerly worked for Walmart, I might be able to provide some insight on why many of the DC-area stores look dumpy. Generally, Walmart likes to remodel its Supercenters about every five or so years. My old Walmart store in Waynesboro, VA opened in 2004 and was remodeled this year. However, non-Supercenter stores go about 8-10 years between remodels. The aforementioned Manassas store off of Sudley Road opened before Sam Walton died (because it had no star in the logo). I estimate that store opened around 1991 or 1992 (Google Earth shows empty land in an April 1991 photo, and then shows it developed in 1994). It would appear to have been remodeled once around 2001 or so based on the presence of the bag wheels and the raised-letter wall signs. When that store closed last year, it looked really dumpy because it hadn't seen a remodel in eight years.
Ugh. I'm not liking the arrival of Evil-Mart to DC at all. I really hope Safeway and the local businesses can hold their own. Those two entities alone (especially the latter) give the DC area a special charm that seems to have been lost forever among great patches of the United States.
I was recently in Sullivan, Indiana (population 3,000) visiting family. My wife and I were not fond of the fact that Wal-Mart was about the only place to buy our food and wares, and there was no Target store in sight- not even in Terre Haute, just 30 miles away. All we could say was "Any port in a storm".
Safeway and Giant are so expensive, may as well have someone come in and create a price war on groceries.