The 5A will be split operation with FourMile and along with ...............Bladensburg division with the next pick comes in DECEMBER. pleaase look for a lot of route changes an alot of bus movements.
also come december the X2 will be shared with during rush hour periods with FourMile
I had a feeling Bladensburg was going to do the 5A too. But I never expected Four Mile Run to do the X2.
I guess people will be seeing New Flyers in Virginia earlier than I thought. I'm looking forward to other route changes and bus movements. It would be nice if Four Mile Run and Bladensburg did a bus trade as in Bladensburg getting some of Four Mile's Orion VII's and Four Mile getting some of Bladensburg's New Flyers. I would like to see more New Flyers in VA.
I feel for those FMR operators doing the X line. I really can't see FMR getting any C40LFs, but C40LFRs would be nice in VA. They seem to be better suited for those routes than the DC routes.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on September 22, 2008, 01:10:27 PM
I feel for those FMR operators doing the X line. I really can't see FMR getting any C40LFs, but C40LFRs would be nice in VA. They seem to be better suited for those routes than the DC routes.
Why can't FMR do the X2 with either NABIs (if they were to actually get some, albeit unlikely) or Orion VIIs?
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on September 22, 2008, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on September 22, 2008, 01:10:27 PM
I feel for those FMR operators doing the X line. I really can't see FMR getting any C40LFs, but C40LFRs would be nice in VA. They seem to be better suited for those routes than the DC routes.
Why can't FMR do the X2 with either NABIs (if they were to actually get some, albeit unlikely) or Orion VIIs?
I was talking about having the C40LFRs more suited to Virginia routes because the powertrain is more suburban than urban.
Now, another good thing that I want to see is another division being CNG friendly. Like Landover, Montgomery, or Northern.
Quote from: landoverdivision on October 01, 2008, 04:32:20 PM
Now, another good thing that I want to see is another division being CNG friendly. Like Landover, Montgomery, or Northern.
Didn't the Maryland divisions have their chance to go CNG several years ago, but declined in favor of hybrids and clean diesel?
Also, wouldn't Northern be a bit too risky given the old age of the building and that it's an indoor depot?
QuoteDidn't the Maryland divisions have their chance to go CNG several years ago, but declined in favor of hybrids and clean diesel?
That is correct. I think Montgomery would have been the CNG garage.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 04, 2008, 03:17:12 PM
QuoteDidn't the Maryland divisions have their chance to go CNG several years ago, but declined in favor of hybrids and clean diesel?
That is correct. I think Montgomery would have been the CNG garage.
They should have taken it, especially since Montgomery has more room than it needs (working right by there, I see it on a daily basis) and it has more than enough room for CNG facilities.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on October 04, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 04, 2008, 03:17:12 PM
QuoteDidn't the Maryland divisions have their chance to go CNG several years ago, but declined in favor of hybrids and clean diesel?
That is correct. I think Montgomery would have been the CNG garage.
They should have taken it, especially since Montgomery has more room than it needs (working right by there, I see it on a daily basis) and it has more than enough room for CNG facilities.
The MD delegation to the WMATA Board at the time was appointed by Governor Erlich. They said hybrid and clean diesel technology was just as good as CNG and cheaper, so that is what we got.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 04, 2008, 07:20:20 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on October 04, 2008, 06:27:00 PM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 04, 2008, 03:17:12 PM
QuoteDidn't the Maryland divisions have their chance to go CNG several years ago, but declined in favor of hybrids and clean diesel?
That is correct. I think Montgomery would have been the CNG garage.
They should have taken it, especially since Montgomery has more room than it needs (working right by there, I see it on a daily basis) and it has more than enough room for CNG facilities.
The MD delegation to the WMATA Board at the time was appointed by Governor Erlich. They said hybrid and clean diesel technology was just as good as CNG and cheaper, so that is what we got.
Such a short-sighted move given how things ended up. Of course, Erlich seemed to be a little out there during his time in Annapolis.
Would it be possible to backtrack at this point?
What would be achieved by reversing that decision at this point?
Especially when that is actually the case. That's why more and more systems are going with hybrids and skipping the heavy investment in CNG facilities...the only people getting CNG buses are people who already have CNG buses.
I'm not totally against CNG, but I'm glad MD decided in favor of hybrids.
Quote from: WayneNYC on October 04, 2008, 11:39:29 PM
I'm not totally against CNG, but I'm glad MD decided in favor of hybrids.
Actually the long term "green" decision is to run as many busses as possible with CNG for the following reasons;
1. Hybrids and clean diesels run on oil. The United States has only 3% of the world's oil so continuing to use oil increases our reliability on imported foreign oil and increases the trade deficit and the transfer of wealth to OPEC countries.
2. On the other hand, the United States has something like 35% or more of the world's natural gas. Increased use of CNG decreases our dependence on foreign oil and reinvests the proceeds right here in the United States.
3. Although in the short term there is a higher capital expenditure to construct a CNG fueling facility, the long term use of CNG is a much "greener" alternative than oil. Even if clean diesels can be manufactured in a way to emit the same type of exhaust as CNG vehicles, CNG vehicles will always be the better long term choice because they don't use oil.
4. Since hybrids use a mountain of batteries and electric traction motors in addition to diesel engines they make a much larger carbon footprint than a CNG vehicle. These batteries have to be manufactured, replaced and somehow destroyed eventually and this is a very energy intensive process.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on October 04, 2008, 09:20:32 PM
What would be achieved by reversing that decision at this point?
Apparently there are a lot of federal tax breaks in getting CNG vehicles nowadays. Plus Natural Gas is a bit cheaper than diesel fuel, and has a more stable price range. Not to mention that with the EPA guidelines (especially for 2010), the engines have to have all of these extra modifications and junk (like a urea tank?) in order to comply, making them more expensive, much more complicated, and less efficient. CNG engines already meet these guidelines with little to no modification, albeit Cummins came out with the ISL-G, which was built to be a CNG engine.
Of course, with all of the hybrids and Clean Diesels (I love those D40LFRs!) running out of Montgomery today, it may be too late to invest in the infrastructure (the fast fill can be expensive!) for CNG fuel....
Actually, according to a CNG seminar I attended, the speaker said that WMATA compared its hybrids to its CNGs and found that the CNG produced less emissions than the hybrid and were more efficient or something to that effect.
I also agree with WMAveteran's points. It's important to note that CNG is a great way to lead us into the age of hydrogen and fuel cell vehicles.
Quote from: Tristan on October 04, 2008, 09:42:13 PM
Especially when that is actually the case. That's why more and more systems are going with hybrids and skipping the heavy investment in CNG facilities...the only people getting CNG buses are people who already have CNG buses.
Yeah...also a lot of people who started off with CNG in its earlier stages were scared away by the problems and cost on infrastructure. However, TMA Bucks in Bucks County, PA, is converting its first bus to natural gas.