According to this http://www.wmata.com/stimulus/project_details.cfm?P=Replacement%20of%20Oldest%20Buses, more DE42LFA's are on the way. It says that the newer ones started to arrive on 5/31/2010. I read on this forum that somebody said they saw 6510 or 6511 on US 50. I'm really going to miss the Flxibles. It's either going to be 6510-6556 or 6510-6557; one part says 47 buses and the other says 48.
I REALLY hope after all these New Flyers are done, the future orders will be anything but New Flyer.
Couldn't some of them been D42LFAs too many hybrids WMATA is becomming a 2nd MTA-NYC.
Oh dear Lowd no....
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 05, 2010, 01:23:24 PM
Couldn't some of them been D42LFAs too many hybrids WMATA is becomming a 2nd MTA-NYC.
Whats wrong with having alot of hybrids? Seattle has the largest hybrid tic fleet. Saves on fuel and maintenance costs.
Nothing last forever. Eventually the Flxs would be going because they are costly to maintain even though we love em.
But hybrids are more expensive to maintain than regular buses, according to a number of people I've spoken to. There are some who argue the added costs of maintaining them don't justify the fuel savings.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on June 05, 2010, 07:13:03 PM
But hybrids are more expensive to maintain than regular buses, according to a number of people I've spoken to. There are some who argue the added costs of maintaining them don't justify the fuel savings.
Many agencies are heading in that direction. I mean eventually, costs will go down. Most new things have a high cost in the beginning but the payout over time might balance out. With the Flxs, parts are scarce and retired buses have to be cannablized for the parts unfortunately. Also, alot of people see hybrids as a new focus on environmentalism as opposed to a straight diesel bus.
To be honest, anyone going in with the mindset that getting hybrid buses is going to save money is going to be in for a shock. From what I've learned, the higher initial costs of the hybrids over the diesels only evens out over the lifetime of the hybrid. These buses are really to "help the environment" rather than to save the big bucks. That's one reason I'm shocked that WMATA stopped putting those "Natural Gas" and "Hybrid" labels on their buses, especially the LFAs.
Wanna really save money? Go the CNG route. Those buses aren't as expensive, and natural gas is much cheaper than diesel. With cleaner emissions, you don't have to get all the particulate and emission treatment stuff that you need for diesel buses, and don't have to change things like the oil as much. Easier to work on as well.
The thing that scares people away is the fact that they have to build infrastructure and commit to this technology. Many of those earlier pioneers were scared away from the less than stellar performance of old engines like the L10G. It's too bad, too, because we are just sitting on an abundance of natural gas...
Back on topic, are all of these new LFAs going to sit in Maryland?
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 05, 2010, 08:30:38 PM
To be honest, anyone going in with the mindset that getting hybrid buses is going to save money is going to be in for a shock. From what I've learned, the higher initial costs of the hybrids over the diesels only evens out over the lifetime of the hybrid. These buses are really to "help the environment" rather than to save the big bucks. That's one reason I'm shocked that WMATA stopped putting those "Natural Gas" and "Hybrid" labels on their buses, especially the LFAs.
Wanna really save money? Go the CNG route. Those buses aren't as expensive, and natural gas is much cheaper than diesel. With cleaner emissions, you don't have to get all the particulate and emission treatment stuff that you need for diesel buses, and don't have to change things like the oil as much. Easier to work on as well.
The thing that scares people away is the fact that they have to build infrastructure and commit to this technology. Many of those earlier pioneers were scared away from the less than stellar performance of old engines like the L10G. It's too bad, too, because we are just sitting on an abundance of natural gas...
Back on topic, are all of these new LFAs going to sit in Maryland?
Metro was probably going to go the CNG route but there was something about the Maryland garages that couldn't support it. Something. As for MTA, they definitely won't consider natural gas again after the failed 93 experiment.
The new LFAs seem to be going to Northern (at least the first batch of them). I've seen a couple in the back on Bladensburg.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on June 05, 2010, 04:23:41 PM
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 05, 2010, 01:23:24 PM
Couldn't some of them been D42LFAs too many hybrids WMATA is becomming a 2nd MTA-NYC.
Whats wrong with having alot of hybrids? Seattle has the largest hybrid tic fleet. Saves on fuel and maintenance costs.
Nothing last forever. Eventually the Flxs would be going because they are costly to maintain even though we love em.
I mean if it saves money then im cool wit it but as a busfan im saying it'll get a little boring after a while.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on June 05, 2010, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 05, 2010, 08:30:38 PM
To be honest, anyone going in with the mindset that getting hybrid buses is going to save money is going to be in for a shock. From what I've learned, the higher initial costs of the hybrids over the diesels only evens out over the lifetime of the hybrid. These buses are really to "help the environment" rather than to save the big bucks. That's one reason I'm shocked that WMATA stopped putting those "Natural Gas" and "Hybrid" labels on their buses, especially the LFAs.
Wanna really save money? Go the CNG route. Those buses aren't as expensive, and natural gas is much cheaper than diesel. With cleaner emissions, you don't have to get all the particulate and emission treatment stuff that you need for diesel buses, and don't have to change things like the oil as much. Easier to work on as well.
The thing that scares people away is the fact that they have to build infrastructure and commit to this technology. Many of those earlier pioneers were scared away from the less than stellar performance of old engines like the L10G. It's too bad, too, because we are just sitting on an abundance of natural gas...
Back on topic, are all of these new LFAs going to sit in Maryland?
Metro was probably going to go the CNG route but there was something about the Maryland garages that couldn't support it. Something. As for MTA, they definitely won't consider natural gas again after the failed 93 experiment.
The new LFAs seem to be going to Northern (at least the first batch of them). I've seen a couple in the back on Bladensburg.
There was no issue with the Maryland garages being able to support CNG. The reason that Maryland never got CNG buses is that Robert Smith, who was WMATA Board Chair at the time that the buses would have been purchased and an appointee of Governor Erlich, believed that it would be more economical to buy clean diesel and hybrid buses (i.e. the 6000s and 6100s) than to install the CNG infrastructure and buy CNG buses.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on June 06, 2010, 03:03:53 AM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on June 05, 2010, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 05, 2010, 08:30:38 PM
To be honest, anyone going in with the mindset that getting hybrid buses is going to save money is going to be in for a shock. From what I've learned, the higher initial costs of the hybrids over the diesels only evens out over the lifetime of the hybrid. These buses are really to "help the environment" rather than to save the big bucks. That's one reason I'm shocked that WMATA stopped putting those "Natural Gas" and "Hybrid" labels on their buses, especially the LFAs.
Wanna really save money? Go the CNG route. Those buses aren't as expensive, and natural gas is much cheaper than diesel. With cleaner emissions, you don't have to get all the particulate and emission treatment stuff that you need for diesel buses, and don't have to change things like the oil as much. Easier to work on as well.
The thing that scares people away is the fact that they have to build infrastructure and commit to this technology. Many of those earlier pioneers were scared away from the less than stellar performance of old engines like the L10G. It's too bad, too, because we are just sitting on an abundance of natural gas...
Back on topic, are all of these new LFAs going to sit in Maryland?
Metro was probably going to go the CNG route but there was something about the Maryland garages that couldn't support it. Something. As for MTA, they definitely won't consider natural gas again after the failed 93 experiment.
The new LFAs seem to be going to Northern (at least the first batch of them). I've seen a couple in the back on Bladensburg.
There was no issue with the Maryland garages being able to support CNG. The reason that Maryland never got CNG buses is that Robert Smith, who was WMATA Board Chair at the time that the buses would have been purchased and an appointee of Governor Erlich, believed that it would be more economical to buy clean diesel and hybrid buses (i.e. the 6000s and 6100s) than to install the CNG infrastructure and buy CNG buses.
Oh yea. That. I remember that. Even now, I doubt any Maryland garages will get CNG infrastructure.
If they really want to save money then I say make the investment and install the CNG infrastructure. This would also help with bus assignments on account of the CNGs will have more places to go than just FMR and Bladensburg.
Well don't worry everyone after these LFAs 102 Hybrids are gonna be left so the Flx B's or E's are gonna stay until next year.
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 07, 2010, 09:28:06 PM
Well don't worry everyone after these LFAs 102 Hybrids are gonna be left so the Flx B's or E's are gonna stay until next year.
I think the B's are toast and all that remains will be the E's. Those B's deserve a fair retirement at this point.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on June 17, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 07, 2010, 09:28:06 PM
Well don't worry everyone after these LFAs 102 Hybrids are gonna be left so the Flx B's or E's are gonna stay until next year.
I think the B's are toast and all that remains will be the E's. Those B's deserve a fair retirement at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Bs outlast the Es at this point. I mean, all the Ds except the Detroit Diesel ones are retired now, plus many Es (and Bs as well, but they still seem to be running ok like the Es)
Quote from: Scrabbleship on June 17, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 07, 2010, 09:28:06 PM
Well don't worry everyone after these LFAs 102 Hybrids are gonna be left so the Flx B's or E's are gonna stay until next year.
I think the B's are toast and all that remains will be the E's. Those B's deserve a fair retirement at this point.
The B's are toast? where have you been? they are 20 years old and still running strong, they'll probably be the last Flixbles retired from WMATA because most of the E's are retired already.
Weren't the B's in storage a couple of years ago? Is that why they've lasted as have?
Quote from: OrionFlyer on June 26, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
Weren't the B's in storage a couple of years ago? Is that why they've lasted as have?
Yes, after the DE40LF/R and D40LFR came along many of the Metro-Bs went into storage. I'm sure this is indeed a factor in why they could thurn out to be the last Flxibles standing at WMATA.
Quote from: WayneNYC on June 26, 2010, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: OrionFlyer on June 26, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
Weren't the B's in storage a couple of years ago? Is that why they've lasted as have?
Yes, after the DE40LF/R and D40LFR came along many of the Metro-Bs went into storage. I'm sure this is indeed a factor in why they could thurn out to be the last Flxibles standing at WMATA.
I love the Metro Es, but I'd be stoked if the current Metro Bs (my favorite Flxibles!) lasted until the end!
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 27, 2010, 12:20:36 AM
Quote from: WayneNYC on June 26, 2010, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: OrionFlyer on June 26, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
Weren't the B's in storage a couple of years ago? Is that why they've lasted as have?
Yes, after the DE40LF/R and D40LFR came along many of the Metro-Bs went into storage. I'm sure this is indeed a factor in why they could thurn out to be the last Flxibles standing at WMATA.
I love the Metro Es, but I'd be stoked if the current Metro Bs (my favorite Flxibles!) lasted until the end!
ala NJ Transit.
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on June 27, 2010, 07:33:55 AM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 27, 2010, 12:20:36 AM
Quote from: WayneNYC on June 26, 2010, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: OrionFlyer on June 26, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
Weren't the B's in storage a couple of years ago? Is that why they've lasted as have?
Yes, after the DE40LF/R and D40LFR came along many of the Metro-Bs went into storage. I'm sure this is indeed a factor in why they could thurn out to be the last Flxibles standing at WMATA.
I love the Metro Es, but I'd be stoked if the current Metro Bs (my favorite Flxibles!) lasted until the end!
ala NJ Transit.
??? NJTransit Metro-Bs are are gone. Both transit and suburban Metro-Ds are still rolling, although the huge NABI 416 order will certainly push them out the door eventually.
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on June 22, 2010, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on June 17, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 07, 2010, 09:28:06 PM
Well don't worry everyone after these LFAs 102 Hybrids are gonna be left so the Flx B's or E's are gonna stay until next year.
I think the B's are toast and all that remains will be the E's. Those B's deserve a fair retirement at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Bs outlast the Es at this point. I mean, all the Ds except the Detroit Diesel ones are retired now, plus many Es (and Bs as well, but they still seem to be running ok like the Es)
I agree. From what I gather from area fans, the Bs were better buses than either the Ds and Es and are thus being kept for mechanical preference rather than age preference. That and keeping them in storage didn't hurt.
Is 9310 still in Paralympics configuration? That could hopefully keep it in service long after the other Flxes are gone.
There may have been two orders as NFI's web site identifies a WMATA order for 48 having been made in the 3rd quarter of 2009, same time frame as Fairfax Connector ordered their 31 units. The NFI press release is dated Nov. 5, 2009.
http://www.newflyer.com/index/2009_11_05_q3_results
Quote from: mrpete on July 19, 2010, 04:13:06 PM
There may have been two orders as NFI's web site identifies a WMATA order for 48 having been made in the 3rd quarter of 2009, same time frame as Fairfax Connector ordered their 31 units. The NFI press release is dated Nov. 5, 2009.
In late 2009 NF was still delivering original group of LFAs (37, 42 and 62 footers). The 48 bues were purchased with stiumulus funds and they're not more than a couple months old at this point. My guess is that the LFAs beyond 6509 may be an option that was taken.
Quote from: Flxible on July 02, 2010, 11:53:26 AM
Quote from: NewFlyer9736BCT on June 22, 2010, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on June 17, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Southern Avenue Annex on June 07, 2010, 09:28:06 PM
Well don't worry everyone after these LFAs 102 Hybrids are gonna be left so the Flx B's or E's are gonna stay until next year.
I think the B's are toast and all that remains will be the E's. Those B's deserve a fair retirement at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Bs outlast the Es at this point. I mean, all the Ds except the Detroit Diesel ones are retired now, plus many Es (and Bs as well, but they still seem to be running ok like the Es)
I agree. From what I gather from area fans, the Bs were better buses than either the Ds and Es and are thus being kept for mechanical preference rather than age preference. That and keeping them in storage didn't hurt.
Is 9310 still in Paralympics configuration? That could hopefully keep it in service long after the other Flxes are gone.
Not saying the Metro-Bs are "better" than the D & Es (or vice-versa). IMO, the fact that some Bs are outliving some Ds and Es is purely coincidental. The NFI DE40LF/R, D40LFR and Orion VII made it possible to retire nearly all of the Metro-Bs. In my mind it made perfect sense for WMATA to retain what was likely some of the 'best" of the newest Metro-Bs. In regards to the Metro-Ds, those buses were some of the hardest working buses at WMATA. For most of their time, most of them have always been at WMATA busiest divisions like Montgomery and Northern. At Northern and Montgomery they pretty much always ran 7-days per week because the artics usually stayed in the house on Sundays. I have nothing against the Metro-Bs, in fact I was very fond of them, but the way I see it... they didn't quite get run into the ground like the Metro-Ds and Es. Also, this last bunch did have the benefit of being in storage for a couple of years and they seemed to have gotten a bit of TLC to bring them back into service.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 05, 2010, 08:30:38 PMThat's one reason I'm shocked that WMATA stopped putting those "Natural Gas" and "Hybrid" labels on their buses, especially the LFAs.
Meant to reply to this a while back. The LFAs do have a hybrid mark, just not the big "RUNNING ON CLEAN HYBRID ELECTRIC" or whatever they say. It's now a smaller black, white, and green sticker. I want to say it's on the sides of the buses near the number, and maybe also the back.
Quote from: WayneNYC on June 27, 2010, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: 79MetroExtraMD on June 27, 2010, 07:33:55 AM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 27, 2010, 12:20:36 AM
Quote from: WayneNYC on June 26, 2010, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: OrionFlyer on June 26, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
Weren't the B's in storage a couple of years ago? Is that why they've lasted as have?
Yes, after the DE40LF/R and D40LFR came along many of the Metro-Bs went into storage. I'm sure this is indeed a factor in why they could thurn out to be the last Flxibles standing at WMATA.
I love the Metro Es, but I'd be stoked if the current Metro Bs (my favorite Flxibles!) lasted until the end!
ala NJ Transit.
??? NJTransit Metro-Bs are are gone. Both transit and suburban Metro-Ds are still rolling, although the huge NABI 416 order will certainly push them out the door eventually.
Oh they're gone now. Figures since they are already getting their transit 416s. Is the order still that grand 1200 over the next 3 years or so?
Quote from: SchuminWeb on July 20, 2010, 11:47:00 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on June 05, 2010, 08:30:38 PMThat's one reason I'm shocked that WMATA stopped putting those "Natural Gas" and "Hybrid" labels on their buses, especially the LFAs.
Meant to reply to this a while back. The LFAs do have a hybrid mark, just not the big "RUNNING ON CLEAN HYBRID ELECTRIC" or whatever they say. It's now a smaller black, white, and green sticker. I want to say it's on the sides of the buses near the number, and maybe also the back.
The "WMATA's Going Green" sticker is on the sides near the number and on the back. They also put the stickers on the 6000's even though they still have their original markings.