...might it be time for Metro to reevaluate its snow policy? I can't see why suspending all bus service is a good move, especially since it would be feasible to run shuttle bus service on snow emergency routes to make up for shut portions of Metro.
I know this has been the worst winter in, well, forever (it might break all records), but Metro needs to revisit its policy especially if this becomes a regular occurrence. Time to retrofit some Rohrs to be snowfighter cars just in case.
And whats wrong with it? I'm glad they're stopping service the roads are terrible out there and besides there is nobody riding the buses tonight trust me I just got in from the snow there's no action on the buses now.
I remember when they used to put chains on buses and they kept running. I guess those same chains are ruining the streets, that is why they aren't used as much.
The DC area isn't used to this type of snowstorm, heck this snowstorm will almost equal what we had over the past 3 years combined.
Quote from: Southeastern Annex on February 05, 2010, 08:40:44 PM
And whats wrong with it? I'm glad they're stopping service the roads are terrible out there and besides there is nobody riding the buses tonight trust me I just got in from the snow there's no action on the buses now.
Tonight makes sense. But to jump to conclusions and suspend it for all of tomorrow is jumping to conclusions. I know that the peer agencies of Metro, even MTA-MD up the road, don't bail when it snows.
My concern kind of is if climate trends change and these snows become semi-regular occurrences. There should be at least some plan to not screw over MoCo/PG/NE DC/parts of VA.
Ok I get you, but come on this is WMATA, we're talking 18 to inches of snow here WMATA is smart not running the buses in the snow ruining them. I mean maybe they shouldn't have retired the Flx Ds just yet put used them for emergency routes.(Why is it that when WMATA makes a lil decision everybody on here almost always criticize what they do?)
Just heard on News8 that Ride On has suspended bus service for Saturday, 2/6/10. DC Circulator service also suspended on Saturday.
Agreed. WMATA is making a smart move. WMATA is really taking the "If you don't have to go out, STAY INSIDE" thing serious. You have to think about it this way. 1) People are not going out so there's no point in wasting gas running empty buses. 2) Employees have to get to work but if they can't move thier cars, how are they going to get to the garage and how are they going to get the buses out of there? 3) Think about this...Metro not running means this is forcing people to make smart decisions and stay home since they won't be able to get anywhere anyway.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 05, 2010, 08:46:32 PM
Quote from: Southeastern Annex on February 05, 2010, 08:40:44 PM
And whats wrong with it? I'm glad they're stopping service the roads are terrible out there and besides there is nobody riding the buses tonight trust me I just got in from the snow there's no action on the buses now.
Tonight makes sense. But to jump to conclusions and suspend it for all of tomorrow is jumping to conclusions. I know that the peer agencies of Metro, even MTA-MD up the road, don't bail when it snows.
My concern kind of is if climate trends change and these snows become semi-regular occurrences. There should be at least some plan to not screw over MoCo/PG/NE DC/parts of VA.
MTA is kind of bailing. They suspended service after midnight and is running limited service tomorrow...or by this post today. Mostly main line routes
Quote from: WES on February 05, 2010, 08:45:25 PM
I remember when they used to put chains on buses and they kept running. I guess those same chains are ruining the streets, that is why they aren't used as much.
The DC area isn't used to this type of snowstorm, heck this snowstorm will almost equal what we had over the past 3 years combined.
Yeah that's a definite. We can do what USPS is doing.
(http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u341/LIL_J_558/016.jpg)
Yea, I kinda wasn't going to be brave this time and venture out. MTA did suspend above ground service because its really bad out here for both riders and operators. Only essential people are the only ones that need to be out in this storm, not the general riding public.
Yeah, it's pretty bad out there further north too! Right now, SEPTA bus division is closed - wait, they just started running very limited service on 5 routes, the Norristown High Speed Line is closed, the trolley lines are running wtih delays, only several Regional Rail lines are operating, and the Broad Street and Market Frankford Lines are running. Honestly, this winter has produced the most snow that we have seen in the last several years as well.
SEPTA revised it's winter policy to give an hours notice before completely shutting down lines before conditions make driving impossible.
When the postal service is not delivering, then that means that it's too bad out there. All the bus agencies are not running today, metrorail is running underground and when snowplows and fire engines are getting stuck, that is not a good sign. Stay home stay safe. Sled, play snow football, have a snowball fight.......just make sure no cops are out there, they might pull out their guns (see last snowstorm).
SNOW?
Its partly cloudy & in the mid 60's.
Are you sure you looking out the window & not the Sci-Fi TV channel?
Seriously tho,
As a livelong DC Native, I do not ever remember a time, when METRO or DC Transit ever suspended bus service for more than 24 hours. . even the blizzard of '66.
I hope & pray that everyone who reads these posts will hunker down, stay warm, and let Mother Nature dump on the region & move on.
Thank GAWD I live in Florida.
Robbie
And now they cancel above ground Metrorail service/all bus service on Sunday too. Not even looking at the logistics of things.
I swear I'm going to move into DC or to the other side of Montgomery County when my lease is up because if these storms happen every winter from here on out, living in Silver Spring will have zero benefits.
You can't predict what the storms are going to be for the future. This was one of epic proportion, one that the city and the surrounding jurisdictions are not prepared to handle. What do you suggest, having all the operators come in and camp out for their shifts? Stay at hotels on your dime? They told people to stay home, not to venture out. Sorry it's not Smallbany where they get those storms all of the time. It's an El Nino year where there is always wacky weather of some sort.
We got more rain in January here than we did all of 2009. California is getting drenched every other week. It's a weird year, chalk it up as a fluke. If it happens exactly the same next year, then that's one thing, but these crazy weather events happen every now and then.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 06, 2010, 06:35:52 PM
And now they cancel above ground Metrorail service/all bus service on Sunday too. Not even looking at the logistics of things.
I swear I'm going to move into DC or to the other side of Montgomery County when my lease is up because if these storms happen every winter from here on out, living in Silver Spring will have zero benefits.
I'm obviously not in DC right now (I'm in a city that supposedly shuts down with a dusting of snow and people just start panicing the moment the word "snow" is mentioned in a weather forecast), but from what I am reading online, there are over 2 feet of snow on the ground, hardly anything is open, the roads aren't clear, and hundreds of thousands of people are without power. Exactly where do you (or anyone else) have to go that is so important that WMATA should be open?
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 07, 2010, 01:13:56 AM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 06, 2010, 06:35:52 PM
And now they cancel above ground Metrorail service/all bus service on Sunday too. Not even looking at the logistics of things.
I swear I'm going to move into DC or to the other side of Montgomery County when my lease is up because if these storms happen every winter from here on out, living in Silver Spring will have zero benefits.
I'm obviously not in DC right now (I'm in a city that supposedly shuts down with a dusting of snow and people just start panicing the moment the word "snow" is mentioned in a weather forecast), but from what I am reading online, there are over 2 feet of snow on the ground, hardly anything is open, the roads aren't clear, and hundreds of thousands of people are without power. Exactly where do you (or anyone else) have to go that is so important that WMATA should be open?
Exactly thank you Oren. It's Sunday. The day with the lowest amount of people catching the bus and it's damn near 2 feet of snow outside if not more. There are cars and trucks still sliding everywhere outside. I'm glad WMATA isn't operating today. Buses will slide everywhere, and nobody will be on them.
Wow DC Area really can't handle snow storms at all, can it? I just hope you guys are in service for morning rush hour.
Were your crews working through the night to get streets cleared, or did everyone go home and say "we'll wait till the morning?"
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 07, 2010, 01:13:56 AM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 06, 2010, 06:35:52 PM
And now they cancel above ground Metrorail service/all bus service on Sunday too. Not even looking at the logistics of things.
I swear I'm going to move into DC or to the other side of Montgomery County when my lease is up because if these storms happen every winter from here on out, living in Silver Spring will have zero benefits.
I'm obviously not in DC right now (I'm in a city that supposedly shuts down with a dusting of snow and people just start panicing the moment the word "snow" is mentioned in a weather forecast), but from what I am reading online, there are over 2 feet of snow on the ground, hardly anything is open, the roads aren't clear, and hundreds of thousands of people are without power. Exactly where do you (or anyone else) have to go that is so important that WMATA should be open?
quoted for truth.
if a snow storm is this bad, it makes plenty of sense to shut down above ground services since most people (hopefully) have common sense and stay home rather than going somewhere not so important. this is why we have weather forecasts, so we can know about this in advance and people can take time to prepare themselves.
now my question is...when will metrobuses and above-ground metrorail be back in service?
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 12:54:09 PM
Wow DC Area really can't handle snow storms at all, can it? I just hope you guys are in service for morning rush hour.
Were your crews working through the night to get streets cleared, or did everyone go home and say "we'll wait till the morning?"
Yeah from what I hear, they cleaned some streets but the problem is since it's Sunday, a lot of streets aren't going to be cleared or close to being cleared until Monday. And Tuesday there is suppose to be another storm. I can handle the snow, but if it's closing schools and things, hey let it be. I ain't mad at them.
Quote from: LandoverDivision on February 07, 2010, 01:05:43 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 12:54:09 PM
Wow DC Area really can't handle snow storms at all, can it? I just hope you guys are in service for morning rush hour.
Were your crews working through the night to get streets cleared, or did everyone go home and say "we'll wait till the morning?"
Yeah from what I hear, they cleaned some streets but the problem is since it's Sunday, a lot of streets aren't going to be cleared or close to being cleared until Monday. And Tuesday there is suppose to be another storm. I can handle the snow, but if it's closing schools and things, hey let it be. I ain't mad at them.
The fact it is Sunday has nothing to do with clearing efforts. The fact there is far more snow on the ground than the DC area is used to handling is an issue.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 12:54:09 PM
Wow DC Area really can't handle snow storms at all, can it? I just hope you guys are in service for morning rush hour.
Were your crews working through the night to get streets cleared, or did everyone go home and say "we'll wait till the morning?"
SEPTA practically shut down, did it not? IIRC, the rationale of the new policy for SEPTA is similar to WMATA's. Even the LIRR is instituting a similar policy. Now I realize that Philadelphia is better equipped to deal with snow than DC, and there seems to be a lack of coordination between SEPTA and the local jurisdictions, and the day before a huge blizzard isn't really the best time to change your snow policies, but WMATA doesn't seem to be the only TA taking the let's bag it and put ourselves in a position to operate after the storm instead of operating through the storm anymore. Probably not a bad decision either for major snow events.
While SEPTA ended up shutting down most services (although all trolley lines and certain RR lines ran until 2PM), everything was up and running for today. The policy didn't really change so much, except that they would give warning when services were going to be shut down instead of running things until the buses/trains/trolleys couldn't move any longer.
On the other hand, PATCO, the Atlantic City Line, and the River LINE (between Trenton and Walter Rand TC) all ran.
While I better understand closing things when roads are starting to become impassible, it's disturbing that the transportation network in the DC region is basically shut down for multiple days, save for limited underground Metrorail service. While the plow came through my side street last night, I'm dismayed that with all of the county systems down there, getting service on at least major routes, especially bus routes, wasn't a priority. Despite Metrorail being closed above ground for over a day or so, not even limited service could be provided.
But anyway, these days public transportation appears to be a luxury than a die-hard necessity. There really is no good reason why systems (especially public transportation systems) aren't prepared, being overly overwhelmed by something like this that isn't completely foreign to this region. Unfortunately, since transportation generally gets the shaft when it comes to funding, we come to situations like these.
Quote from: LandoverDivision on February 07, 2010, 01:05:43 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 12:54:09 PM
Wow DC Area really can't handle snow storms at all, can it? I just hope you guys are in service for morning rush hour.
Were your crews working through the night to get streets cleared, or did everyone go home and say "we'll wait till the morning?"
Yeah from what I hear, they cleaned some streets but the problem is since it's Sunday, a lot of streets aren't going to be cleared or close to being cleared until Monday. And Tuesday there is suppose to be another storm. I can handle the snow, but if it's closing schools and things, hey let it be. I ain't mad at them.
If they don't have at least full Metrorail service and some bus service tomorrow, something will be very, very wrong.
For the old-timers here, prior to this winter was there ever a time when the shutdowns were that drastic? Or is this a byproduct of an agency near collapse at a time when DC's had its worst snow season since Colonial times?
I just hope next winter has like a couple good 5-6" snowstorms that don't ruin area transit and have above average temps otherwise.
It's called learn from prior mistakes of sending out buses and have them stuck rather than running anyway. Other large storms in the late 70's and 80's that I remember as a kid, they'd run the buses and they wouldn't really be on a schedule or rarely show up because they were stuck. So, keeping them off the streets to give the plows a chance to clean up the main thoroughfares isn't that bad of an idea.
Enough with the Metro is on the verge of collapse. They are just taking safety precautions rather than risk accidents and having very spotty at best service. The jurisdictions, all of them, even precious Arlington, need to just get their acts together and get the roads plowed so people can get back to work tomorrow.
Isn't also a thing whereas Metro wants to save money because of the massive budget gap? So it's better to save gas and money and stay on the safe side. Again, this is going to force people to do what they should be doing and staying in the house.
I agree with WMATA (and other local systems) shutting down. It's better to be safe than sorry and it's a situation where people are advised to stay in, and employers were advised to give their emplyees the time off to keep traffic off the roads. It's pretty rare that buses in NYC have to pull in for inclement weather, but the bus operator are allowed to use their discretion. In fact they're advised by both management and the union to not proceed into any situation they think may be questionable. The subway is often not affected for a couple of reasons. On the el, most of the snow simply fall through to the street and the longest service intervals is 20 min (late night trains) and of course in the tunnels it's not an issue.
OPM just announced the federal government is closed tomorrow. Many school systems have already announced they are shut tomorrow, and on Tuesday as well in some cases (when the next snow storm comes through). My guess is WMATA doesn't think it can be at full speed tomorrow and the local governments won't have things cleared to the point people really need to be out.
Jason, the current snow policy had always been in effect (I have or had a document from 10 years ago almost that calls for all underground service_, but they haven't been implementing it much until now, or we just didn't know about it as much because the internet and social media were not really used in this way. The last time WMATA tried to run through a storm, it took awhile to come back to full speed, people bitched, and the policy was changed so that service can resume more quickly. People seem to be accepting the current policies without much complaint, aside from some transit buffs on Subchat, whose opinions aren't really worth much in this case. WMATA says it can handle any snow up to about 8 inches, and generally does without major problems.
Brandon, there is very good reason in my opinion the DC transit systems and local governments are not prepared for this sort of thing. The investment simply would never pay off. Most years, the DC area simply does not get this much snow over the course of the entire season. Unless you think having plows and other equipment sitting around for years without use so it can be there for situations like this one is worthwhile, then the governments have made the right move. (That said, I'm sure if you want to pay for the equipment they currently lack, they will gladly take your money and buy it.) Obviously, I'm not in the DC area right now, but my parents still do not have power. Our street is plowed to the pavement right now only because my neighborhood has a contractor that plows our streets for us instead of the county, but in a storm like this, it is more likely than not that my parents could drive to the end of our street and then be confronted by conditions on the main roads worse than those in our neighborhood. The governments don't even have all the major roads clear right now and won't until the end of the day today. Whether running transit is a concern of the local governments isn't even a question that can be asked at this point in my opinion since it is simply impossible to have cleared this much snow by this time with the equipment that the governments have in their possession.
I should add for everyone's benefit to get an idea of how large a storm this is, in 2007, Ithaca, NY got about 2 feet of snow in 24 hours and everything there shut down. Why does anyone expect a place like DC to handle this much snow if Ithaca and other Upstate New York locales are shut down under those circumstances?
I thought I heard somewhere yesterday that New Jersey was running out of salt. It's definitely not a DC area thing where there is a problem getting things cleared out. It's not worth the liability to send people out in dangerous conditions to take a chance riding on a bus that is going to have problems, just to set themselves up for people to complain that the bus wasn't reliable.
I know most people here see Twitter as a joke and it's 99.98% people who don't know the inner workings of transit agencies, but the reaction to the latest news (no change in rail initially tomorrow, limited bus service) is VERY anti-Metro. Some samples.
- "#WMATA FAIL! Only underground rail service? Limited bus? How can a major east coast city function without mass transit?"
- "No above ground wmata service tomorrow. I actually wanted to go into the office. Ugh."
- "Really confused why it has been over 24 hours since @wmata last provided an update on status of DC Metro. #snOMG"
- "WTF @wmata I need to know if I'll be able to make it to work tomorrow"
- "I wish #wmata would make a decision about tomorrow. Either way I think it will be easier to walk to work than take #metrofail."
- "Hey! Look! @wmata finally stopped drinking long enough to tell us what they are doing tomorrow (link to press release)"
- "WTF with the no above-ground service even on Monday, @wmata!?! Fer reals?"
[never mind that the official Metro twitter feed is @metroopensdoors, but still...]
I'm lucky that my job syncs to OPM, however most people want some element of normalcy in their lives and with another 5-8 inches due Tuesday night I think things might only get worse. So many Northeners moved to DC for a reason: to see less snow. Heaven help this isn't just El Nino.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 07, 2010, 08:53:32 PM
I know most people here see Twitter as a joke and it's 99.98% people who don't know the inner workings of transit agencies, but the reaction to the latest news (no change in rail initially tomorrow, limited bus service) is VERY anti-Metro. Some samples.
- "#WMATA FAIL! Only underground rail service? Limited bus? How can a major east coast city function without mass transit?"
- "No above ground wmata service tomorrow. I actually wanted to go into the office. Ugh."
- "Really confused why it has been over 24 hours since @wmata last provided an update on status of DC Metro. #snOMG"
- "WTF @wmata I need to know if I'll be able to make it to work tomorrow"
- "I wish #wmata would make a decision about tomorrow. Either way I think it will be easier to walk to work than take #metrofail."
- "Hey! Look! @wmata finally stopped drinking long enough to tell us what they are doing tomorrow (link to press release)"
- "WTF with the no above-ground service even on Monday, @wmata!?! Fer reals?"
[never mind that the official Metro twitter feed is @metroopensdoors, but still...]
I'm lucky that my job syncs to OPM, however most people want some element of normalcy in their lives and with another 5-8 inches due Tuesday night I think things might only get worse. So many Northeners moved to DC for a reason: to see less snow. Heaven help this isn't just El Nino.
The only thing this shows me is how dumb, stupid, and ignorant people are how is WMATA gonna run buses if the rodas aren't clear, and at least most of them who down here in southeast have the A's running so they're in luck. Buses won't return to normal until things clear out people are acting like spoiled kids about this. And most of Schools, Govenment Buildings are closed so why is people even fussing about it for?
Quote from: LandoverDivision on February 07, 2010, 09:29:49 PM
Dude, shut up already. Metro is trying their best to get service back up and running again. If you can't catch the buses or trains because of the service, GET OVER IT. DEAL WITH IT.
Exactly. Well said Brandon. You sit here and whine and moan about every little thing WMATA does like be grateful you even have a T/A that provides service to you, I said it once and I'll say it again if you don't like WMATA don't ride WMATA. All this huffing and puffing about the service makes no sense.
Quote from: Southeastern Annex on February 07, 2010, 09:31:24 PM
Quote from: LandoverDivision on February 07, 2010, 09:29:49 PM
Dude, shut up already. Metro is trying their best to get service back up and running again. If you can't catch the buses or trains because of the service, GET OVER IT. DEAL WITH IT.
Exactly. Well said Brandon. You sit here and whine and moan about every little thing WMATA does like be grateful you even have a T/A that provides service to you, I said it once and I'll say it again if you don't like WMATA don't ride WMATA. All this huffing and puffing about the service makes no sense.
Exactly my point. I think WMATA would know what's best for them better than we would know. If you was to get on the bus and get stuck, you would complain even more. If you was to get on the train and the train got stuck on the bridge, who would you blame....WMATA. So yall complain now, but when you actually get stuck out in the middle of nowhere, you're going to do even more complaining. So don't blame them for keepin your butt safe. You only have yourself to blame for being stupid and going out to begin with.
Quote from: Perry on February 07, 2010, 05:43:16 PM
I thought I heard somewhere yesterday that New Jersey was running out of salt. It's definitely not a DC area thing where there is a problem getting things cleared out. It's not worth the liability to send people out in dangerous conditions to take a chance riding on a bus that is going to have problems, just to set themselves up for people to complain that the bus wasn't reliable.
Wow! Never heard that they ran out of salt. Now that you mention New Jersey... NJTransit is also quick to play it safe and suspend bus service during heavy snow storms.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 07, 2010, 08:53:32 PM
I know most people here see Twitter as a joke and it's 99.98% people who don't know the inner workings of transit agencies, but the reaction to the latest news (no change in rail initially tomorrow, limited bus service) is VERY anti-Metro. Some samples.
- "#WMATA FAIL! Only underground rail service? Limited bus? How can a major east coast city function without mass transit?"
- "No above ground wmata service tomorrow. I actually wanted to go into the office. Ugh."
- "Really confused why it has been over 24 hours since @wmata last provided an update on status of DC Metro. #snOMG"
- "WTF @wmata I need to know if I'll be able to make it to work tomorrow"
- "I wish #wmata would make a decision about tomorrow. Either way I think it will be easier to walk to work than take #metrofail."
- "Hey! Look! @wmata finally stopped drinking long enough to tell us what they are doing tomorrow (link to press release)"
- "WTF with the no above-ground service even on Monday, @wmata!?! Fer reals?"
[never mind that the official Metro twitter feed is @metroopensdoors, but still...]
I'm lucky that my job syncs to OPM, however most people want some element of normalcy in their lives and with another 5-8 inches due Tuesday night I think things might only get worse. So many Northeners moved to DC for a reason: to see less snow. Heaven help this isn't just El Nino.
Jason,
I think it's probably safe to say that some of these people will have a complaint regardless of what WMATA does in this case. If WMATA chose to not suspend service, they'd complain about trains and buses having problems in the snow. If someone got hurt on one of the outside platforms or in a weather-related bus accident, they'd say that WMATA should've shut down. I think WMATA made the right decision, but it was one in which they were going to be second-guessed and/or criticized whichever way they went on this issue.
What IS WMATA doing to clear the rapid transit tracks? I can understand the shut down with so much snow, but I'm really not understanding why Metrorail service, which runs on tracks, is taking forever to be restored. Are they just waiting for it to melt a bit? Do they have maintenance vehicle with plows? Is the equipment really THAT sensitive? Are there not many contractors available to clear stations, especially overnight? Do they have a specific removal program where the system can be restored in stages if necessary, with the densest sections taking priority?
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 10:51:10 PM
What IS WMATA doing to clear the rapid transit tracks? I can understand the shut down with so much snow, but I'm really not understanding why Metrorail service, which runs on tracks, is taking forever to be restored. Are they just waiting for it to melt a bit? Do they have maintenance vehicle with plows? Is the equipment really THAT sensitive? Are there not many contractors available to clear stations, especially overnight? Do they have a specific removal program where the system can be restored in stages if necessary, with the densest sections taking priority?
My understanding is that they actually have to remove the snow from the tracks
According to the Washington Post's "Dr. Gridlock", WMATA will be operating the following buses ONLY on Monday. They Are:
9:10 p.m. update: Some additional details:
Bus service will be available on less than 10 percent of Metro's bus routes beginning at 9 a.m. and ending at 7 p.m. Service will start the day only on snow emergency routes. Expect substantial delays due to the condition of the roads.
"Take your time when boarding a bus, as we know that there are huge piles of snow lining the edges of streets and blocking the bus stops," said Dave Kubicek, Metro's acting deputy general manager for operations. "Please do not [try] to run to catch a bus or a train as it's not worth a fall that could cause an injury."
Metro said it will operate limited service Monday on these routes in the District of Columbia: the U8 line (Minn. Ave – Capitol Heights), the 64 line (Georgia Ave-Petworth– Fort Totten), the 50 line (14th and Colorado Ave) the 70 line (Silver Spring – Archives), the S4 line (Silver Spring – Federal Triangle) the 30 line (Friendship Heights – Potomac Ave) and the A line (Southern Ave to Anacostia).
In Northern Virginia, service will be provided on the 16 line (Pentagon – Baileys Crossroads) the 1C line (Dunn Loring), 2C line (Dunn Loring), 17 line (Braddock Road) and the 28 line (Alexandria – Tysons Corner).
Routes operating in Maryland will be the Z2 and Z8 line (Silver Spring), the Q line (Silver Spring-Shady Grove), the Y line (Silver Spring –Norbeck Road), the F1 and F2 line (Takoma – Cheverly), the J2 line (Bethesda – Silver Spring), the J7/J9 line (Bethesda – Lake Forest Mall), and the P12 line (Eastover – Addison Road).
Wonder why NO C2-4, F4, or limited 80's (Rhode Island Avenue).
very little cross-town, county routes listed
I did see Ride-On will operate their "S" service plan, operating all routes, as if its a normal weekday rushhour.
Please Stay Safe & warm, all you good people.
That's an interesting set up. I would expect a slow start up, but I'm surprised that bus service is ending so early. At least employees who were living at hospitals and nursing homes for the past 2-3 days can attempt to head home.
Quote from: WayneNYC on February 07, 2010, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 10:51:10 PM
What IS WMATA doing to clear the rapid transit tracks? I can understand the shut down with so much snow, but I'm really not understanding why Metrorail service, which runs on tracks, is taking forever to be restored. Are they just waiting for it to melt a bit? Do they have maintenance vehicle with plows? Is the equipment really THAT sensitive? Are there not many contractors available to clear stations, especially overnight? Do they have a specific removal program where the system can be restored in stages if necessary, with the densest sections taking priority?
My understanding is that they actually have to remove the snow from the tracks
Like...shovels and such? Egads!
It wouldn't be a terrible idea for WMATA to confer with the neighbors to the north to see how they deal with excessive snow. They might learn something that may make it a bit easier for at least the rail division to start up more quickly again just in case of dire winter conditions.
I'm just afraid if they don't get things cleared up NOW, they are going to be in a world of hurt when the next storm comes through.
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 08, 2010, 06:49:49 AM
Quote from: WayneNYC on February 07, 2010, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 07, 2010, 10:51:10 PM
What IS WMATA doing to clear the rapid transit tracks? I can understand the shut down with so much snow, but I'm really not understanding why Metrorail service, which runs on tracks, is taking forever to be restored. Are they just waiting for it to melt a bit? Do they have maintenance vehicle with plows? Is the equipment really THAT sensitive? Are there not many contractors available to clear stations, especially overnight? Do they have a specific removal program where the system can be restored in stages if necessary, with the densest sections taking priority?
My understanding is that they actually have to remove the snow from the tracks
Like...shovels and such? Egads!
It wouldn't be a terrible idea for WMATA to confer with the neighbors to the north to see how they deal with excessive snow. They might learn something that may make it a bit easier for at least the rail division to start up more quickly again just in case of dire winter conditions.
I'm just afraid if they don't get things cleared up NOW, they are going to be in a world of hurt when the next storm comes through.
Not sure how they actually remove the snow from the tracks. In regards to checking with other agencies, I always wondered about this too and thought it was a no-brainer. In my mind between SEPTA, NYCTA, MBTA and CTA surely they could get some good advice, but I also understand that WMATA's railcars are probably more complex than those on the older systems.
Metro revises Monday's limited bus operations
Metro has revised its plans for bus service from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. today. Metrobuses now operating on snow emergency routes include the 64, 50, 70, S4, 30, Z2, Z8, P12 and 16, though several routes are terminating before their regular end point. That's fewer routes than Metro originally announced it would operate.
Staff writer Aaron C. Davis reports that hundreds of people were waiting for the first buses this morning between downtown D.C. and the Beltway, spilling into the roadways. Along Georgia Avenue, the Route 70 buses were packed.
Evidently, people had places to get to. Dr offices & the like.
The METRO website currently has NO listing for the F1-2, J2, Q, or Y lines.
Give up & wait for the spring thaw?? In May or early June, perhaps?
Rode a J2 today from Silver Spring. They seem to be running in two portions from Silver Spring to Bethsda and from Medical Center to Montgomery Mall. Sounds horrible for connections in the scheme of things.
Noticed one of the Y's running as well and mobs waiting for the S4 and 70 buses. It also looks like 40" bus service only probably due to the risk of seeing an artic jackknife.
ANOTHER SNOW STORM ON ITS WAY RUN, HIDE LLS THEY SAYING IT MIGHT BE 10 TO 20"
One lovely thing is that all of that snow is going to cover all of the ice that's still left on the roadways! :( I'm gearing up for the 2nd storm myself!
One good thing about this snowfall thats forecasted. . .
My HOT TUB is set for a comfy 103F
(has anyone seen my ice scraper??)
Tomorrow's status before this alleged second storm, good news and bad news:
Good news: The return of full service on the Green, Yellow, and Orange lines plus some extra bus routes (71, 79, P6, P12, X2, 16's).Bad News: Eastern Blue Line and the above-ground portions of the Red Line are still not clear of "snow drifts on the tracks of 3-6 feet". This really hits Montgomery County and eastern DC hard. To add insult to injury, still no shuttle bus service though all the effected stations on the east side have some way out.
Wayne (and anyone who's a facebook friend) might be the only person to get this, but why am I getting a LILCO-post-Hurricane Gloria vibe from Metro lately? I'll go hide in my Chicken Little hole :P
I remember LILCO always seeming to have issues in their areas. Although I grew up in bad neighborhoods, I guess in terms of power companies we were lucky to have Con Ed.
BTW-You may already know that OPM has decided to keep to Federal offices closed again on Tuesday. Thankfully, we usually follow the feds.
Today I drove to Tyson, College Park and Rockville. As the media is saying... There's lot more work to be done. Some roads are good. Parts of I-270 were actually dry today, but there's still many roads with ice, snow and slush. The bad part is that it's refreeze tonight and whatever else we have coming in this next storm. Feels like I moved back to New York:-).
So, Jason, you blame Metro not running its buses because MDOT and VDOT can't clear the roadds? Interesting.
Quote from: Perry on February 08, 2010, 10:01:18 PM
So, Jason, you blame Metro not running its buses because MDOT and VDOT can't clear the roadds? Interesting.
Having been in the district today, I'd say DDOT is far worse than SHA in road clearing. SHA's at least gotten most roads down to the pavement. With DDOT it's just wishful thinking.
So for this morning at least, until you all get hammered with the next round, Metrorail is fully open again aside from the Blue Line east of Stadium-Armory, where there are supposedly 3-6 foot high snow drifts. Am I the only one puzzled by the fact the Orange Line is running out to New Carrollton, and the truncated Blue Line is presumably relaying at D&G Junction, and the Blue Line is underground from just beyond D&G to Addison Road, yet there is no Blue Line service to Addison Road?
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 09, 2010, 07:11:45 AM
So for this morning at least, until you all get hammered with the next round, Metrorail is fully open again aside from the Blue Line east of Stadium-Armory, where there are supposedly 3-6 foot high snow drifts. Am I the only one puzzled by the fact the Orange Line is running out to New Carrollton, and the truncated Blue Line is presumably relaying at D&G Junction, and the Blue Line is underground from just beyond D&G to Addison Road, yet there is no Blue Line service to Addison Road?
MAJOR snow drifts in the area between Addison Road and Largo. Makes me wonder if it's possible to still relay trains at Addison Road since the Blue between Stadium Armory and Addison Road is mostly underground.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 09, 2010, 08:20:08 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 09, 2010, 07:11:45 AM
So for this morning at least, until you all get hammered with the next round, Metrorail is fully open again aside from the Blue Line east of Stadium-Armory, where there are supposedly 3-6 foot high snow drifts. Am I the only one puzzled by the fact the Orange Line is running out to New Carrollton, and the truncated Blue Line is presumably relaying at D&G Junction, and the Blue Line is underground from just beyond D&G to Addison Road, yet there is no Blue Line service to Addison Road?
MAJOR snow drifts in the area between Addison Road and Largo. Makes me wonder if it's possible to still relay trains at Addison Road since the Blue between Stadium Armory and Addison Road is mostly underground.
You seem to miss my point. The crossover at Addison is just west of the station. Why can't the trains relay there? Clearly, the line from Stadium-Armory to D&G is clear since the Orange Line is using it.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 09, 2010, 09:03:26 AM
The crossover at Addison is just west of the station. Why can't the trains relay there? Clearly, the line from Stadium-Armory to D&G is clear since the Orange Line is using it.
Agreed. Perhaps there's some weather-related issue at the junction and they're currently leaving it set for Orange line trains???
And we go back to emergency mode while SEPTA officials laugh and shake their heads at Metro (http://unsuckdcmetro.blogspot.com/2010/02/wmata-v-septa-v-snow.html#comments). Who wants to take bets on when full service is resumed?
My bets: Gradual reopening on Thursday, full reopening on Friday for rail, bus service back by Saturday.
Here's my thing. WMATA is going to take a lot of heat one way or the other because DC people do nothing but complain. Being stuck at home is better than being stuck out in the middle of nowhere.
METRO SHUTS DOWN AGAIN
HAM SANDWICH AND A FEW OTHER WORDS I WANNA SAY LOL ............. ;D
On Facebook WMATA notes that it operated 300 buses as of 11:00 AM Tuesday! Why would you brag about operating about 30% of your fleet? One responder noted that she waited 2 1/2 hours for a J2 that never came. The other responses also do not relate positive experiences.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 09, 2010, 06:55:07 PM
And we go back to emergency mode while SEPTA officials laugh and shake their heads at Metro (http://unsuckdcmetro.blogspot.com/2010/02/wmata-v-septa-v-snow.html#comments). Who wants to take bets on when full service is resumed?
My bets: Gradual reopening on Thursday, full reopening on Friday for rail, bus service back by Saturday.
Gradual reopening on Thursday? Based on the events since this past weekend, Metro trains won't operate in service in natural light until at least Friday. However, I hope I'm wrong!
Interesting that you posted that blog post comparing SEPTA to WMATA. Just want to clarify/correct some points in the article:
1) All SEPTA rapid transit lines have above ground portions, including the Broad Street Subway (which has a surface based yard too). The Market-Frankford Subway-
Elevated[/i] as well as the Broad Street Line ran before, during, and after the storm. In fact, part of the new "blizzard" policy is to run the trains all night, instead of closing for the bus owl service.
2) Unfortunately, the rt 100, Norristown High Speed Line, was suspended rather early. I'm actually quite disappointed with that, especially since it used to be a line that was reliable at just about any time. This reliability dipped significantly in recent years. I think this has to do with SEPTA selling the snow fighting equipment that was used for this line...although I guess it was getting old.
3) The PATCO Lindenwold High Speed Line ran before, during, and after the storm. Picture in this thread: http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=897058. Of course, the storm wasn't finished yet at the time of this photograph.
4) All lines were up and running for normal Sunday service with a few delays, which is to be expected in inclement weather.
I'm glad that people are starting to stir, scratch their heads, and say "this isn't quite right". I hope that things improve for future storms, and that this mentality of "well, nobody ever has to go anywhere, so it's okay to go on lock-down for a week" doesn't continue to rule. After all, that type of stuff CRIPPLES the economy. How ironic that this is happening in the place where the people trying to stimulate the economy live and work.
WMATA Bus Division, all the municipal service providers, and road crews need to have a serious talk once things get cleared up so that there can be better coordination. Metrorail needs a staff meeting as well. Things HAVE to improve - DC is not Florida!
It's just been a freak winter season so far that caught this entire region off guard. It's not wise to compare two different areas like NYC and DC. NYC can afford to have the equipment because they have a much more extensive system and has a larger budget than DC. Plus, they usually get much more brutal winter weather than here (lake effect snows). I think Metro might change up some things a bit to have some kind of equipment on hand, but that is subject to the budget and what they can afford to be fiscally conservative, but putting safety for their employees and riders outweighs having to run transit during a snow emergency. Most people are already off, the bulk of them being fed gov't employees. As it was said many times, people should heed caution and just not risk their lives in going somewhere if they are not essential personnel.
WMATAGMOAGH
So for this morning at least, until you all get hammered with the next round, Metrorail is fully open again aside from the Blue Line east of Stadium-Armory, where there are supposedly 3-6 foot high snow drifts. Am I the only one puzzled by the fact the Orange Line is running out to New Carrollton, and the truncated Blue Line is presumably relaying at D&G Junction, and the Blue Line is underground from just beyond D&G to Addison Road, yet there is no Blue Line service to Addison Road?
I was wondering the same. I would hazard a guess the portal east of D&G Junction is where those snow drifts are.
HELLO,
DID ANYONE HEAR THAT METRO WILL BE SHUT DOWN TILL TUESDAY?????
I JUST GOT A CALL AND CANT GET ON THE WEBSITE
According to Metro, only the Vienna-Ballston and Shady Grove-Medical Center portions of Metro will be closed on Friday. More bus routes will resume service though.
I wonder why Metro isn't running shuttle buses for the affected portions of the Red/Orange lines. It isn't like Rockville Pike or I-66 aren't covered in snow and it'd help some riders. Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 11, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
I'd anticipate that will mess up the blocking setup. The bus that arrives at MCC at 222p can no longer leave at 227p. True, the service will probably get slammed in timekeeping tomorrow anyway, but a 46 extension would probably overwhelm dispatch - not like the 40 footer every 15 minutes is a great substitute for a Red Line Train.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 11, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
According to Metro, only the Vienna-Ballston and Shady Grove-Medical Center portions of Metro will be closed on Friday. More bus routes will resume service though.
I wonder why Metro isn't running shuttle buses for the affected portions of the Red/Orange lines. It isn't like Rockville Pike or I-66 aren't covered in snow and it'd help some riders. Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
Cool, that's better news than before!
Apparently some bus service started up again, don't know when they decided to restart bus service. Tonight saw 2607 doing a 38B and a D41LFR doing an A12 and also another D41LFR (presumably 6164 deadheading back to Landover).
I am amazed that bus service didn't start sooner, because the streets were getting better as I left for work at about 12pm.
Oh yea one more thing today one year ago, it was in the 70s.
Quote from: btconet on February 11, 2010, 09:59:30 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 11, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
I'd anticipate that will mess up the blocking setup. The bus that arrives at MCC at 222p can no longer leave at 227p. True, the service will probably get slammed in timekeeping tomorrow anyway, but a 46 extension would probably overwhelm dispatch - not like the 40 footer every 15 minutes is a great substitute for a Red Line Train.
Ride On is on their "S Schedule" on Friday. From my reading of the brochure on their website, it sounds like the interlines are dropped on the S Schedule so extending the 46 to Shady Grove may not be impossible, except the S Schedule also specifically calls for no 46 service to Shady Grove.
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 12, 2010, 03:18:07 AM
Quote from: btconet on February 11, 2010, 09:59:30 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 11, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
I'd anticipate that will mess up the blocking setup. The bus that arrives at MCC at 222p can no longer leave at 227p. True, the service will probably get slammed in timekeeping tomorrow anyway, but a 46 extension would probably overwhelm dispatch - not like the 40 footer every 15 minutes is a great substitute for a Red Line Train.
Ride On is on their "S Schedule" on Friday. From my reading of the brochure on their website, it sounds like the interlines are dropped on the S Schedule so extending the 46 to Shady Grove may not be impossible, except the S Schedule also specifically calls for no 46 service to Shady Grove.
That's somewhat short-sighted on their part, but buses are going to get slammed in timekeeping as it is on the 46 (and possibly some routes going eastward -- 5, 26, 37, 38, 48, etc.) with crunches of people trying to get to Metro.
Quote from: WES on February 11, 2010, 11:21:52 PM
Apparently some bus service started up again, don't know when they decided to restart bus service. Tonight saw 2607 doing a 38B and a D41LFR doing an A12 and also another D41LFR (presumably 6164 deadheading back to Landover).
I am amazed that bus service didn't start sooner, because the streets were getting better as I left for work at about 12pm.
Oh yea one more thing today one year ago, it was in the 70s.
Yeah yesterday afternoon i saw some empty a** Flx B's on the F4.
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 12, 2010, 07:20:54 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 12, 2010, 03:18:07 AM
Quote from: btconet on February 11, 2010, 09:59:30 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 11, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
I'd anticipate that will mess up the blocking setup. The bus that arrives at MCC at 222p can no longer leave at 227p. True, the service will probably get slammed in timekeeping tomorrow anyway, but a 46 extension would probably overwhelm dispatch - not like the 40 footer every 15 minutes is a great substitute for a Red Line Train.
Ride On is on their "S Schedule" on Friday. From my reading of the brochure on their website, it sounds like the interlines are dropped on the S Schedule so extending the 46 to Shady Grove may not be impossible, except the S Schedule also specifically calls for no 46 service to Shady Grove.
That's somewhat short-sighted on their part, but buses are going to get slammed in timekeeping as it is on the 46 (and possibly some routes going eastward -- 5, 26, 37, 38, 48, etc.) with crunches of people trying to get to Metro.
Why is it short sighted?
Red Line is open up to White Flint now. I think you are over exaggerating and over hyping this situation. The federal government delayed its opening, my guess is they knew the roads would get better and 2 extra hours for Metro to be able to open more above ground trackage would make a huge difference, and it seems they were right. On top of that, people have unscheduled leave if they need it. Schools are still closed, many were going to be closed today anyway for staff development. It is the start of the long weekend so many people may have been planning to take off work anyway.
As for the S Schedule, not interlining in conditions like this makes sense. Obviously the interlining is a bit more complex than this but let's say the 30 and 36 are interlined such that every trip does a round trip on the 30 from Bethesda, then a round trip on the 36, and so on. If the neighborhood streets the 30 relies on are still difficult to pass through, the 36 passengers who use a route that only uses state roads are not going to be impacted nearly as much. Also, the S Schedule calls for fewer buses to be on the road, acknowledging for drivers who can't make it in and lighter than expected loads with schools, the county government, and other workplaces being closed. It looks like it is mostly based off the old Saturday Supplemental schedules that used to run on Presidents Day, MLK Day, Veterans Day, and Columbus Day.
As it says on SubChat, "Before Posting, Think Twice!"
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 12, 2010, 08:42:16 AM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 12, 2010, 07:20:54 AM
Quote from: WMATAGMOAGH on February 12, 2010, 03:18:07 AM
Quote from: btconet on February 11, 2010, 09:59:30 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 11, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
Maybe Ride On should do a one-day extension of the 46 to Shady Grove...
I'd anticipate that will mess up the blocking setup. The bus that arrives at MCC at 222p can no longer leave at 227p. True, the service will probably get slammed in timekeeping tomorrow anyway, but a 46 extension would probably overwhelm dispatch - not like the 40 footer every 15 minutes is a great substitute for a Red Line Train.
Ride On is on their "S Schedule" on Friday. From my reading of the brochure on their website, it sounds like the interlines are dropped on the S Schedule so extending the 46 to Shady Grove may not be impossible, except the S Schedule also specifically calls for no 46 service to Shady Grove.
That's somewhat short-sighted on their part, but buses are going to get slammed in timekeeping as it is on the 46 (and possibly some routes going eastward -- 5, 26, 37, 38, 48, etc.) with crunches of people trying to get to Metro.
Why is it short sighted?
Red Line is open up to White Flint now. I think you are over exaggerating and over hyping this situation. The federal government delayed its opening, my guess is they knew the roads would get better and 2 extra hours for Metro to be able to open more above ground trackage would make a huge difference, and it seems they were right. On top of that, people have unscheduled leave if they need it. Schools are still closed, many were going to be closed today anyway for staff development. It is the start of the long weekend so many people may have been planning to take off work anyway.
As for the S Schedule, not interlining in conditions like this makes sense. Obviously the interlining is a bit more complex than this but let's say the 30 and 36 are interlined such that every trip does a round trip on the 30 from Bethesda, then a round trip on the 36, and so on. If the neighborhood streets the 30 relies on are still difficult to pass through, the 36 passengers who use a route that only uses state roads are not going to be impacted nearly as much. Also, the S Schedule calls for fewer buses to be on the road, acknowledging for drivers who can't make it in and lighter than expected loads with schools, the county government, and other workplaces being closed. It looks like it is mostly based off the old Saturday Supplemental schedules that used to run on Presidents Day, MLK Day, Veterans Day, and Columbus Day.
As it says on SubChat, "Before Posting, Think Twice!"
Well said WMATAGMOAGH. I'm one of the few that developed the "S Schedule" at Ride On. We built the "S Schedule" to take out the interlining and to reduce the number of buses on the street. To see that you thought the #46 not going to Shady Grove on the S Schedule is short sighted is one of the stupidest comments I have seen. Work in the business and learn the insides of a transit system before you start talking $hit about it first....
Rideonrulez, you should have anticipated this very storm and extended the 46 to Shady Grove Station to help with Metrorail. Shame on you for not looking into your crystal ball! LOL ;D.
How long ago was the S schedule created, anyway? Also, is the county Public Works working with Ride On to ensure that the routes the S schedule calls for are reasonably clear of snow?
Just curious, tis all.
Snow picture by staff photographer Larry Levine and others can be had under the Snow February 2010 thumbnail at Metro Photo Gallery (http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/photo_gallery/).
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 12, 2010, 07:20:54 AM
That's somewhat short-sighted on their part, but buses are going to get slammed in timekeeping as it is on the 46 (and possibly some routes going eastward -- 5, 26, 37, 38, 48, etc.) with crunches of people trying to get to Metro.
Uh huh. So if a train has a wreck tomorrow, shutting down some portion of the Red Line, do you have a plan ready to pull out your ass? Do you have all your extra service scheduled, blocked, and cut to accommodate the specific situation at that specific time? Did you get this plan through operations and to the garages? Did you go down your list of hundreds of operators to get all the pieces assigned? Can they all report in time? Do they have enough time to figure out what they are doing?
Do you have
ALL of that done and ready to go when that phone rings? If not, that was short sighted on your part, you should've seen that coming. You were supposed to predict the unpredictable.
As far as timekeeping, why don't you learn a bit more about the S schedule before you talk $hit about it.
Golly...a lot of rage in this thread. In theory, one would hope there would be contingency plans in place, although WMATA should be the ones responsible. The only thing is...the snow makes it a tad difficult to get around.
I don't think it's too wild a notion to expect increased ridership if the bus is running but the Metrorail is shut down. After all, that's what happened earlier this week, no?
Just checking out the "S" plan...there's no printed "timetable", is there? Just the brochure with approximate headways? That may solve the "timekeeping problem".
Link: http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/DOT/transit/S_Service_Plan-web.pdf
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 12, 2010, 09:43:39 AM
How long ago was the S schedule created, anyway? Also, is the county Public Works working with Ride On to ensure that the routes the S schedule calls for are reasonably clear of snow?
Just curious, tis all.
It was created 2 years ago and was run cut manually. There is a printed book that is prepared every winter with the full years updates to route extensions....etc
Quote from: Tritransit Area on February 12, 2010, 11:45:42 AM
Just checking out the "S" plan...there's no printed "timetable", is there? Just the brochure with approximate headways? That may solve the "timekeeping problem".
Link: http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/DOT/transit/S_Service_Plan-web.pdf
There is no "public" timetable available...