What do you guys think Ride-On's next order of CNG buses is going to be? Personally I would like to see them order some C4OLFR with the same engine/tranny combo(ISL-G/Voith?) as wmata
Well at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if they talked Gillig into CNG.
Yeah, who would've thought that they would get such an abundance of new Gilligs several years ago?
I'd say that if Ride On is interesting in expanding their fleet further, they'd get C40LFs with frameless windows and the ISL-G/Allison B400 powertrain. They have some tmie before they start replacing CNG buses, outside of the 35 foot Orion Vs.
I'd rather have them with ZFs, but for some reason ZFs don't do well on DC Area streets.
Quote from: Tristan on October 30, 2009, 11:41:01 AM
Well at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if they talked Gillig into CNG.
I doubt Gillig would even venture into CNG (anymore at least).
Ride-On with C40LFRs that doesn't sound bad. But I would get a kick out it if they ordered some NABI 40 LFW Restyled CNG like ART has except 40 footers.
Ride On to NABI would be a sea change...but I said the same thing when it happened at ART, then it happened again!
The only way I think Ride On would get more New Flyers is if they are able to find another piggyback option. From my understanding, New Flyers are incredibly difficult to acquire for smaller TAs with small orders. They seem to be a "oh we were so lucky to get slots so we just HAD to take it" type option. And the last time I heard, Ride On weren't too happy dealing with Orion. So, Ride On getting NABIs might not be TOO far out of the question...
Of course this would only apply to CNG orders, as I believe Ride On has some sort of contractual obligation to Gillig for diesel orders.
IIRC, I think they're running up on the end of that contract. But azn is correct, I think -- the small TA market for New Flyers is either in piggybacks or used buses. Ride On's current New Flyers were piggybacked on a Culver City order, I think. There is no shortage of agencies ordering NFs, but how is the C40LFR selling? Hybrids are sort of the alt fuel of choice right now for the industry because it doesn't require new fueling equipment...I'm not good at tracking bus orders from other areas, but I can't think of any big CNG purchases from New Flyer right now. Their second quarter backlog only lists MARTA ordering CNG vehicles right now.
IMO, NABI looks really bad right now as a quality bus manufacturer in light of the Chicago debacle, but those buses are a few years old, so maybe they still have a fighting chance from a marketing standpoint if they don't go bankrupt trying to fix those botched artics, and don't screw too many agencies over while trying to keep New Jersey happy.
Although, Buses "R" Us doesn't really have to start thinking about it until 2011, when the 1999 Orion V CNGs turn 12 (and I don't think Ride On has ever retired a heavy-duty bus @ 12 years).
Keep in mind that CNGs don't necessarily have to be replaced by CNGs, and diesels don't have to be replaced by diesels. Unless there is some infrastructure limitations that we're not aware of.
True - Gaithersburg still tops off its diesel tank I guess.
My guess is what Ride On would replace the 1996-98 Orion V's with when the time comes. I'd put money on CNG replacements for those before the 1999's are due.
After riding ART's new CNG NABI's yesterday, I can say that it would be an interesting addition to the Ride On fleet. One downside is do they do sealed frameless windows anywhere? Of course, I think Ride On should go back to opening windows but that's just me.
They'll do whatever you tell them to do if you can pay for it...and a sealed window is structurally no different from an opening window (that is, it uses the same sized frame cut) so they wouldn't have an issue doing it. The reason you don't see it anywhere is because it's a bad idea that no one but SEPTA and Ride On does (and RO's Ops Dir came from SEPTA). SEPTA's NABIs have sealed windows I guess.
Quote from: Tristan on November 01, 2009, 09:46:24 AM
They'll do whatever you tell them to do if you can pay for it...and a sealed window is structurally no different from an opening window (that is, it uses the same sized frame cut) so they wouldn't have an issue doing it. The reason you don't see it anywhere is because it's a bad idea that no one but SEPTA and Ride On does (and RO's Ops Dir came from SEPTA). SEPTA's NABIs have sealed windows I guess.
CDTA too and their former GM also came from SEPTA. Don't forget all the warm weather TA's that do it due to the heat -- MDT and Houston Metro two of the bigger ones.
While NABI had serious problems with the CTA artics (actually a custom order) they are winning business especially in Cali (Santa Monica just ordered 11 BRT artics). But how NABI fares as they wind down the big NJT and LACMTA orders will be interesting.
NABI has also been awarded several small orders for the BRT artics which were probably piggybacked on other big orders.
I can see them ordering New Flyers because the current Operations Manager is from SEPTA and has even expressed that he would like to go in that direction. As to ordering CNG's to replace the older CNG's; that would make sense because they paid ALOT of money to build the current fueling facility.
Well.. I'm in Favor of seeing some more New Flyers around.. Bring in the C40LFR!! Its sad also the current flyers just look beat and tired.
Quote from: ir0cq09 on November 02, 2009, 04:57:01 PM
Well.. I'm in Favor of seeing some more New Flyers around.. Bring in the C40LFR!! Its sad also the current flyers just look beat and tired.
I ride the Flyers very often, they don't all seem so beat and tired in my opinion
now I wonder how a Ride-On C40LF would look restyled, this will be interesting...
The only issue I've seen with Buses "R" Us's New Flyers is the same problem they have with all their 40-footers -- drivers making a 35-foot turn in a 40-foot bus leaving dings, dents, and scuff marks near the rear door where the bus makes contact with streetlights, cars, fire hydrants, and other obstacles.
Quote from: mrpete on November 01, 2009, 04:51:51 PM
While NABI had serious problems with the CTA artics (actually a custom order) they are winning business especially in Cali (Santa Monica just ordered 11 BRT artics). But how NABI fares as they wind down the big NJT and LACMTA orders will be interesting.
NABI has also been awarded several small orders for the BRT artics which were probably piggybacked on other big orders.
Hasn't every CNG 60BRT made to date that hasn't been for LACMTA been a piggyback off of the LACMTA order?
Quote from: ir0cq09 on November 02, 2009, 04:57:01 PM
Well.. I'm in Favor of seeing some more New Flyers around.. Bring in the C40LFR!! Its sad also the current flyers just look beat and tired.
I wouldn't say beat and tired, but I would say uninspired. They look nice, but unless you're in the way back those seats suck big time.
I said beat because the exact thing tristan said, Driver error with the turns and etc. But other than that there a nice but of the fleet and would love to see more.
Quote from: rideonrulez on November 01, 2009, 06:16:38 PM
I can see them ordering New Flyers because the current Operations Manager is from SEPTA and has even expressed that he would like to go in that direction.
Oh no!
Speaking of The CNG.......So i recorded this aboard 5914 on the 74 to Germantown, At red lights and stops this bus revved like crazy, does anyone know why it does that... i also know 5804 and 5905 does this.. i ride 5905 everyday home from work on the 76. Does anyone know what causes this? I actually like it though...This big had lots of personality.(sorry for the crappy recording)
It's just a property of CNG I believe - as a gas, not a free-flowing liquid, I think (100% guess) that it doesn't flow as smoothly to the engine as a liquefied fuel would. I've noticed that this happens in the evenings on some units as the fuel gets lower in the tank -- my guess is that if you have X amount of gas compressed into a space, it isn't as compressed the more it's used and the more space becomes available, meaning it doesn't flow with such high pressure, causing weird idles and strange knocking.
http://transit.tecsbrain.org/recs/Ride&20On/RIDEON5915-120404.mp3
See if this sounds like what you're talking about...especially the HARD knocking as this bus tries to make it up hills. This was at about 9 PM, probably a good 15 hours or more after this bus was fueled.
Quote from: ir0cq09 on November 03, 2009, 06:11:44 PM
Speaking of The CNG.......So i recorded this aboard 5914 on the 74 to Germantown, At red lights and stops this bus revved like crazy, does anyone know why it does that... i also know 5804 and 5905 does this.. i ride 5905 everyday home from work on the 76. Does anyone know what causes this? I actually like it though...This big had lots of personality.(sorry for the crappy recording)
I don't know about 5804 or 5905 but 5914's revving is freakin crazy, when i got on the 74 bus going back home one day at Shady Grove Station, and the bus was just idling there for what seemed like forever, it can drive you insane just hearing that same sound for about 5-10 minutes
Quote from: Tristan on November 03, 2009, 08:23:06 PM
It's just a property of CNG I believe - as a gas, not a free-flowing liquid, I think (100% guess) that it doesn't flow as smoothly to the engine as a liquefied fuel would. I've noticed that this happens in the evenings on some units as the fuel gets lower in the tank -- my guess is that if you have X amount of gas compressed into a space, it isn't as compressed the more it's used and the more space becomes available, meaning it doesn't flow with such high pressure, causing weird idles and strange knocking.
http://transit.tecsbrain.org/recs/Ride&20On/RIDEON5915-120404.mp3
See if this sounds like what you're talking about...especially the HARD knocking as this bus tries to make it up hills. This was at about 9 PM, probably a good 15 hours or more after this bus was fueled.
Hey Im getting a error when trying to click on the link, and u may be right. b/c when ever these buses are doing that its in the early afternoon or late in the evening. and no that sound wouldt drive me crazy...actually prefer to ride buses that sound odd and different makes my ride 10x more enjoyable.
Try this: http://transit.tecsbrain.org/recs/index.php?l=12&p=Ride_On/RIDEON5915-120404.mp3
Think it's a DD50G thing? I don't recall other CNG engines doing that, but of course my experience is limited.
Nah, WMATA's Orion VIIs buck a lot too, again, in the evening after the fuel pressure decreases.
I'm assuming b/c of the different runs the buses have they get fueled at different time? b/c in the summer I would always get 5907 on the 59 at the same time at 9:32 in the morning and it would do the same exact thing. At first I thought it was just isolated to the voiths. But I've been on a couple of the 5900's ZF's and the NF's and they done it also...
Not sure what mechanism a CNG fuel system uses to get fuel from the tank to the engine...do you need fuel pumps and whatnot? Any defect in that system could cause the same problem, not just low fuel volume.
I know at DASH we top off every fuel tank every night, but would that necessarily be the case at a larger TA?
Quote from: ir0cq09 on November 07, 2009, 08:47:25 AM
I'm assuming b/c of the different runs the buses have they get fueled at different time? b/c in the summer I would always get 5907 on the 59 at the same time at 9:32 in the morning and it would do the same exact thing. At first I thought it was just isolated to the voiths. But I've been on a couple of the 5900's ZF's and the NF's and they done it also...
At NYCTA most of the buses get refueled when they're pulling in during the evening. The bus operator into the depot. From there the "drillers" take over and the bus will get it's farebox probed while being refueled and fluids checked, then it's through the wash and parked. The buses that operate overnight (we call them hawks) generally pull-in toward the end of the AM rush hour and they'll get refueled and either go back out or get parked assuming there's no issues that would put it on the "bad order" line.
If I recall correctly, I always thought CNG buses have multiple (at least 6 or 8 ) individual tanks under that hump. I honestly don't think the cause of the issue is something as simple and obvious as CNG pressure dropping throughout the day.
You're right that they do. I don't profess to be an engine mechanic, I'm just stitching together things I've observed, things I've been told, and things I've learned to come up with a theory. Maybe it's not correct, but why would it be incorrect simply on the basis that it is "simple and obvious"?
Quote from: ir0cq09 on November 03, 2009, 06:11:44 PM
Speaking of The CNG.......So i recorded this aboard 5914 on the 74 to Germantown, At red lights and stops this bus revved like crazy, does anyone know why it does that... i also know 5804 and 5905 does this.. i ride 5905 everyday home from work on the 76. Does anyone know what causes this? I actually like it though...This big had lots of personality.(sorry for the crappy recording)
Ha...sorry to bring up a old topic but i finally found a vid of what i was talking about a good vid. its lacmta 7311 sounds so cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLRjN2zjHc
I've seen multiple buses in the past that have done this. The most recent was 5832 at GTC this morning on the 55. What I'd like to know is: Do WMATA's buses do this as well, or is it just Ride-On?
Quote from: RideOn5905 on April 16, 2010, 11:09:47 AM
I've seen multiple buses in the past that have done this. The most recent was 5832 at GTC this morning on the 55. What I'd like to know is: Do WMATA's buses do this as well, or is it just Ride-On?
i know some of the 2800's do. i was on the 79 last week and a wheelchair passenger got on. when the bus driver opened the ramp the engine started revving like that. it was so awesome. to bad the C-Gas+ is not being made anymore. The ISL-G sounds so bland.
I've heard this sound from any combination of CNG powertrain, and I think I've experienced most (if not all) of them. It's not restricted to a particular manufacturer or agency, it's just one of the properties of a natural gas engine.
Saw this on BusChat-------> So it looks like Gillig is getting into the CNG business http://www.ngvglobal.com/emi-natural-gas-fuel-systems-for-gillig-buses-0327
Does anyone think that Ride On will probably get CNG Gillig's once they make there debut?? i was hoping for more Orion's or New Flyer's Ride On.
Quote from: ir0cq09 on May 05, 2010, 03:49:04 PM
Saw this on BusChat-------> So it looks like Gillig is getting into the CNG business http://www.ngvglobal.com/emi-natural-gas-fuel-systems-for-gillig-buses-0327
Does anyone think that Ride On will probably get CNG Gillig's once they make there debut?? i was hoping for more Orion's or New Flyer's Ride On.
considering the fact on how Silver Spring has ordered tons of Gilligs recently, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of their CNGs ordered for Gaithersburg. if not, then I hope they go with New Flyer, i'm tired of seeing Orion VIIs all over the place
CNG Gilligs? Okay, THAT is something I'd like to see Ride-On get. Plus, I don't think their next CNG batch is gonna be Orion VII NGs, since I remember reading an earlier post here that said that RO wasn't too happy with their current O.VIIs. Come to think of it, that post also said something about NABIs not being out of the question. I have to admit, it would be a nice change of pace. Plus, seeing so many VIIs does get a bit tiring after a while. Except for the '03 models; I'll NEVER get tired of those.
It just occurred to me... would this new CNG approach also apply to the 30-footers? Because it'd be pretty cool to see some of those buzzing around Germantown as well; like, doing the 97 and 98. Plus, if they do, this could mean the end for the Helldorados (I've actually never ridden one of those before).
Wow. I must say that seeing so many Gillig Low Floors around gets tiring after a while too....
I wouldn't be surprised if they get more New Flyers or Gilligs, though...sigh...